natural magic

So, if a magus has 1000 effects going for the same 25 weeks a year, that would be 0 Warping Points. Meanwhile, if a magus has 2 effects going for the same 27 weeks a year, that would be 2 Warping Points. Right?

At least you and I agree on the weeks (or days or months, whatever) not needing to be contiguous, which is consistent with Covenants.

honestly that was a quick and dirty analysis. If someone actually did this in a game I would have to give it more thought. I'd also have to consider ejecting them from the game because honestly it seems there is no reason to do this beyond trying to jerk the SG's chain.

Most my magi from D&D 3.5 and ArM5 do this sort of thing (piles of maintained spells) on a regular basis, and people have been impressed how much good preparation enables. However, I don't keep all the spells active constantly. And you can put a lot of good effects on other things, where you don't really care if they warp. For example, carrying a bunch of stones with both Lamp Without Flame and Unseen Arm can be useful in a number of ways. You can do all sorts of fun stuff with a similarly controlled rope with Supple Iron and Rigid Rope on it. But, no, I wouldn't do things like 1000 spells for the same 25 weeks a year; that would certainly be jerking the SG's chain, as you said.

If they aren't mastered, won't there be enough warping from the 1 in 100 botch? Before reading the rules fully, I was thinking stuff like each morning casting wizards sidestep just in case.

Apart from freaking the hell out of mundanes by accidentally walking through half of a doorway and a door frame as one can't turn it off, that's 3 warping a year, on a 1 in 100 botch.

You only botch if it is a stress dies, and if you use duration moon you are looking at 13- 25 casting a year not 300. Also a spell is not cast with a stress die if it is learned and cast in a relaxed setting "If the maga is not under any pressure it is a simple die"

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Sorry, yes. This was when I was thinking why bother learning those low level protections when you can spont them. The answer is warping, as sponts are always stress. My memory failed me.

In regards to the warping by having lots of spells and doing a crazy min-max optimisation, ect, I think the SG needs to get a newspaper, slap the player around with it a bit and say, stop being a rules lawyer prick.

I see that some other people have posted a similar assessment, with maybe a bit less venom and minor violence.

I never engage in minor violence. It only gives people an incentive to retaliate. If you aren't going to at least cripple your enemies don't bother.

First, sponts are not always stressed. Second, once you've cast it once, you don't need to keep sponting it.

All I suggested was that someone could have spells running non-stop without Warping with this Virtue. That doesn't require any sort of "crazy min-max optimisation," does it?

That's my problem with a lot of canonical spells. Oh, great, my enemy is sick now or is now five years older or similar. I've pissed them off and let them leave to exact their vengeance later.

If you divide by 5, yes, no die roll, so no stress, but sponts, if you roll a die, it's a stress die. P81 core rule book.
"FATIGUING SPONTANEOUS MAGICCASTING TOTAL: (Casting Score + Stress Die)/2"

Most ongoing spells will be at best duration sun, so casting the spont at least once a day to have ongoing protection except when sleeping would be needed. Twice a day for full protection.

I was responding to the more extreme options of multiple spells turned on and off to avoid warping, but still have the benefit of lots of ongoing magic. Warping is the balance element to stop magi going too crazy with buff spells, so it generally shouldn't be abused.

Of course someone might want to run a saga of wizards as powerful as Gandalf, and have no warping, generous aging rules, etc.

Yes, I get that. I was pointing out that "sponts are always stress" is incorrect. And then there is Diedne Magic for more powerful, non-stressed sponts, too.

Concentration duration, most likely, if you're doing this. That lowers it by a magnitude and only requires it to be sponted a single time.

That's one of the things I like about the interpretation of the core rule with an average. If you run 100 spells for a week-long adventure, you've got 2 Warping Points right there from that week alone. With some other interpretations, you've got none.

You also have the possibility of starting your adventure by going into twilight on a bad roll... depending on details of how you buff

First point, having them as Formulaic lets you recast them if you're hit by a dispelling spell. Using the proposed virtue, they would need to be Formulaic to not warp for long term.
Second point, I have found very few Ars Magica players who aren't enjoying the game of Rules Lawyering. I have a player who enjoys finding abusable issues and asking if he misinterpreted them or if he needs to avoid finding out that abuse in character. :slight_smile:
I'm pretty lucky that my players prefer not breaking the game system, even if they love finding ways that could do it.

A lot of canonical spells are just badly designed from rules perspective, let alone murderous practicality.

I think a lot of what I'd call 'legacy spells' are just the best those casters could come up with at the time - especially if some of these are from pre-Hermetic traditions (as opposed to non-Hermetic) where inventing spells was fairly uncommon.

You'd think most of the Order would be using spells from experimentation that got a good result and got spread around because they're more awesome than their level would suggest.