natural magic

I am considering having a new virtue in a game which would allow you to cast spells or create effects which would not cause warping from long term exposure for those people whom it is designed for (following the same rules for avoiding warping for high powered effects) would this be a minor or major virtue? Looking for opinions and discussion.

No Warping at all? Probably major.

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Major, and it needs some other downside or limitation, because non-Warping Longevity Rituals will effectively double hermetic longevity, and that's a big deal. For example, a constant effect item that you can't take off/turn off, or it stops working forever and you have to reinvent it from scratch. This is basically weaving magic into someone's Essential Nature?

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not exactly- that would be more of a creo ritual. What exactly it is: that's very campaign specific and something I don't want to discuss openly... but yes it could affect longevity rituals, but for most spells or devices it would be the mage and up to one other person that it would not warp. I'm thinking that it might only count for the magus' own longevity ritual, not ones they make for someone else- and then only if they make their own.

A bit more than doubling, IIRC, but I may be wrong.
This also take the cap off of all forms of buff-/booster-style spells.
Yes, magi can weave these into the familiar bond, but that's a lot of eggs in a single basket, potentially.

The very idea of how much my Verditius magus could (and would) abuse this is making me all tingly - and I can only imagine how it makes @Christian_Andersen feel, since he'd probably have to SG for the result.

Warping wouldn't be an issue, but vis limitations would still be...
of course after a couple of centuries game length and similar issues regarding setting development would also be problematic... how much does the game change for the protestant reformation, or Columbus discovering America, or do those events not happen in your game...

I admit I tend towards being particularly restrictive, especially towards warping. I would rule that a virtue which lets a magus not warp only himself with long-term warping effects I'd consider to be a major virtue. The reasons are somewhat twofold: First, because warping on a magus is what really keeps him from carrying around an infinite amount of spells upon himself, including a massive bonus to resistances, warding every supernatural being, and more. Warping has always been my favorite way to check the power of magi. Second, because this feels like a significant flavor to the a magis magic, a defining point. It's not like Affinity or Puissant, this sort of change feels like a it shouldn't be thrown in with ALSO Elemental magic, ALSO Mercurian magic.

I know a lot of people consider many major hermetic virtues to not be worth it for power, but that's a different argument: I've always felt Major Hermetic Virtues to be an important defining point for a character's magic, and this ability feels like it's on the same scale of importance. The restriction on only being allowed a single Major Hermetic Virtue means that the major hermetic virtues are key defining points for the character.


Limit the warping to 1 point per year, now that'd be easier to define. If you can stack 5 effects with LR and still warp slowly, that's strong but not killer.

Well it's hard to pin down exactly, but longevity becomes more a factor of the quality of the LR than the Warping they get from the LR, which is roughly 50% of expected warping over time. I mean the practical maximum of a LR is probably somewhere around lab total 150 which could work well for someone up to 300 years old. Most magi will have far lower LR totals, but it generally becomes a moot point when they're scraping up against Final Twilight somewhere north of 160 years of age.

I suspect that a lot of magi engage in dangerous research in their twilight years as they'd rather explode or go into Final Twilight than get that 4th Decrepitude point and be Enfeebled through old age.


Part of my thinking here is that this would be a lost secret of Diedne, who believed in reincarnation (at least this version of them) and would rather die than go into twilight and lose their chance to reincarnate.


If the saga is sufficiently long term for this to matter at all, just avoiding warping for the longevity ritual sounds like a major virtue. Of course, this is only for magi who specialise in longevity and make their own rituals. If you rely on others for LR, then the virtue only barely worth a minor.

I think it would still be worth a Major even if you rely on someone else for longevity. Certainly, by the OP, it would apply to all Longevity Rituals. Sure, that would save some in the long term, especially for a longevity specialist. That might overlap some with healing rituals or Characteristic improvement Rituals. But those last ones are fairly small generally. The really big thing I see is that a magus could put a hundred wards or similar on themselves and have those spells running non-stop while also living inside a pile of circular wards. Yay, you just cut down on 100+ Warping Points a year!

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unless you get vis by the dumpster truck, I think you would be somewhat more limited by the need to renew the spells= if you are using moon duration and have to renew every 30 days, 2 spells per day... really not likely more than 60 warping per year...

Why on Earth would you limit yourself like this? When you cast spells in the safety of your own home, no pressures present, there's no need for a stress die. Casting a spell takes roughly 6 seconds - why not spend a few minutes every morning perfecting yourself?

The limitation isn't really how many spells you can be bothered to cast in a day - it's how many such useful spells you know. Imagine pairing this with eg. Magical Focus: Self Transformation!

because casting spells takes time, and you have other things to do with your time besides adding that 61st or 70th spell for a little more enhancement

If only it were two spells per day, you could treble that, and it is still only a minute. You do not notice that in your normal morning bathroom ritual.

But you have to renew 30 at the new moon and 30 at the full moon, and that is going to be tedious.

Whether its 50 or 150, the point remains.

As for how long it takes, outside of casting the spells in the first place, it can be done with one ReVi spell per 2 weeks per active spell. If you're doing it this much, you might have mastered the ReVi spell for Imperturbable Casting and Multiple Casting, let's say, and it's probably not fatiguing. If that's the case, one day every two weeks you have to spend a grand total of 30 rounds casting to maintain 90 spells. I wouldn't think 3 minutes every two weeks would cut into your work so much. Even without the multiple casting, we're looking at 9 minutes over two weeks to keep 90 spells going. That's less than a minute a day on average at worst.

The point is not that it cuts into your work. It is boring!

So is brushing your teeth. I bet you spend more time in a week doing that. How about doing dishes? No? How about laundry? I bet you can find something boring you are regularly willing to spend more than 9 minutes every two weeks doing.

Besides, the magus who doesn't want to do this and doesn't make Longevity Rituals doesn't take this Virtue. The magus who makes Longevity Rituals or who wants to be prepared for all sorts of eventualities is the type would would take this Virtue.

No, actually, such things are regularly put off, and very rarely done on schedule ...