fundamentally it would require a breakthrough, since it is something that magi cannot currently do, and that breakthrough is non trivial (trivial breakthroughs being things like finding new material bonuses or maybe a new duration or range). It is something that is known can work (from the bath itself) but for which there is only one known source of inspiration. If that inspiration is explored and developed into a spell and the lab texts distributed by a particularly ethical Bonisagus then it could well become a reality from lab work in a few decades...
alternately if there is a way to invoke the power of the bath through an arcane connection this could significantly alter the stonehenge tribunal.
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Not as big as the way I'd thought that the problem might be solved which is jiggling with the Parma Magica.
The way it is depicted is that there is a solution, it's just only in one place under the supervision of one Magic Deity (much fallen).
That only requires duplicating an already existing thing not creating something new. It should be possible to do it without having to capture, move or destroy the existing Bath. (But an experimental disaster is always possible.)
Now you can make it as hard as you like but if my players discover it and understand what it can do I'd feel like I was ruining their fun if I made it the work of decades to get the effect duplicated.
If they do it then the setting changes. And I don't think that people spitting on magi is so necessary a feature of Mythic Europe that I would put road blocks in the way.
EDITED TO ADD:
The Arcane Connection thing is a brilliant idea. Only problem is that it makes the Bath susceptible to attacks via the connections. You'd need the Goddess to co-operate. Some Magi would, of course, do their best to chain her. Which is another story.
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Or just invoke the goddess through theurgy to bless more baths...
If you wanna do it that way, fine.
But the idea of balance in the Virtues is something that for me exists as a game balance thing and people can have unfair advantages over other people without working or sacrificing for them.
My way of looking at it was that most magi build up the psychic equvalent of massive Body Odour and until they start using the Magic Bath Salts they don't know how to clean up their act. The fact that the 'we hate magi' returns after a while would seem to be consistent with that idea.
Could be a problem with Christians including Christian magi.
"No, no! I want to suffer! God has decided that the price of my magic is the hatred of others! I will not undergo your vile pagan cleansing ritual!"
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Take a look at the definition of The Gift on the glossary on page 8 of the corebook: "the ability to use almost any form of magic, with proper training. All magi have The Gift. The Gift makes people around a character uneasy." Social penalties are there from the very beginning, so the way I interpret it they just are part of it, something intrinsically tied to it. To see it as a lack of magical higiene that can be removed with the proper water and bathing salts seems odd to me. Moreover, it seems like a story seed regarding magi wanting to be socially accepted and unable to do so because of their power: what price would they pay? Just to take a bath from time to time there seems like putting the bar quite low.
Which is ok. I hadn't read about these baths, but I'm guessing there is no mechanical explanation on how they work, so let's make one: the only known way to get rid of The Gift's effects is to have The Gentle Gift (which reminds me of this discussion from a while ago, about how The Gentle Gift could be seen as a weaker Gift, which is what made me think that maybe by bathing there you would actually be weakening your Gift, and how that could work), which is a Virtue, that just lasts for a while there.
Powers can grant Virtues, and supernatural creatures have powers. I'd bet that there is one involved. When granted virtues are permanent, they drain the might score from the power's owner... but whey they are temporary, they just need to spend might points, as with any other power. This seems to fit with that bath so far.
The hypothesis suggest an experiment: go there with a magi with a very, very high Parma, and have him take a bath and see what happens. Also some InVi spells could come handy. And the realm affiliation of that possible creature would need to be checked, because it might well be a demon after all.
A good thing of this is that it doesn't even need to be true. If that bath is discovered, at least some magi are going to follow this line of thinking, and following them and their doings around the baths would probably give for a few stories regarding the baths.
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If you want the social penalty of the Gift to be there forever then fine. Make it part of the Essential Nature of the Gift and say it can't be changed.
If you want the story of the transformation of Mythic Europe that follows solving that problem you get to think about maybe the whole of the Order having been wrong all this time and not really understanding what the Gift was about.
The idea that Bonisagus can be shown to be wrong is also hard baked into the setting.
And the suggestion of the high Parma Mage going for a bath is a brilliant one.
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At minimum I would expect they would need to lower their parma while bathing, which once a week makes the exercise non trivial.
Also it does involve the power of a goddess, so it isn't just do x, y, and z and it works.
Our game has 2 gift-suppressing effects. One we started with, and is a curiosity of the interaction of our regio and our aegis: the effects of the gift are not felt within the aegis. This was part of the premise of our covenant, to permit certain interactions with the university of cambridge. Not helpful for your campaign however.
The second is from Bath - specifically an underground set of baths directly fed from the great engine of Bladud. I gave the baths there three effects: suppress the gift, suppress lycanthropy and cure disease. This has been discovered by the party and used as an insight for further research.
We agree that "suppressing" the gift must weaken it, so much so that one character who had dwelt too long at our covenant had their gift suppressed entirely. Therefore, the insight our criamon with focus "seeing beyond the mundane" had (and after some ordeals for our degifted character) was to recreate the great fermenting engine, but in reverse: baths which when bathed in make the gift more blatant. After adventures to secure the mythic salts...
Our magi created this new set of baths, which allowed our previously degifted character to rediscover his gifts. To take advantage of the gift suppression effect, one must balance it with the gift worsening effect of the new set of baths to avoid losing ones gift.
However, we also wanted a systematic explanation of King Bladud's engines and their magic, so we can recreate new baths. This line of discovery will be through a mystery cult dedicated to Aqua Sulis.
Basically the core things we have decided upon about the engines, is that the 7 mythic salts determine the effects of an engine, which confers its powers to the waters it ferments. The 7 mythic salts correspond to the 7 astrological planets, of which 3 are primary (and hence determine the effect), with the topic of the effect (e.g. Health/Disease for Sun, The Gift for Mercury, Lycanthropy for Moon) and the expression (suppress, embolden, not sure yet) determined by the other 4, the order the salts are added, the vessels etc.
So when they "recreated" the engine, the primary salts and the topics were unchanged, but the expressions were because they didnt truly understand the underlying theory. Now the characters need to research if they want an analytical understanding of Bladud engines, and to perhaps integrate them into Hermetic magic. The effects of Bladud Engines should always be based around virtues/flaws imo.
This is just what we did, but it was the source of many stories both in and out of Bath (lots of fun things you can do with finding the salts), allows introduction of a mystery cult and can lead to a whole new facet of magic based around the conference/suppression of virtues/flaws imbued into water based on the planets (from the mysteries). So perhaps any of this could be a fun addition?
Oh final thought, if you have gentle gifted character and you overcome the gift, I think you should allow the character to pick new virtues (either 2 if the gift is partially suppressed, or 3 if fully), just as I feel you should allow characters with good [characteristic] to pick a new virtue if your magi develop spells to increase their characteristics. New virtues are ideally developed as part of the story.
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To be precise, ML p.16 boxes Effects of the Baths and A Fourth Set of Baths ? offer SG and troupe an option:
Alternatively, choose an effect or effects to tempt the player characters:
I summarized potential consequences for a saga here:
But it is clearly your saga, and you are most welcome to define it and have fun. Transforming Mythic Europe to a troupe's needs is well within the scope of Ars Magica.
Well, as to that:
- I hope that my saga is set apart from every other. For sheer wonderfulness if nothing else. I'm not planning on making it compliant with some standard other than that needed to allow my players to have fun
- And? See TRANSFORMING MYTHIC EUROPE
- Does this happen? See remark 1 and the fact that I wouldn't let someone bring in a magus that had advanced in another campaign into mine.
- Like HARN all ARS MAGICA supplements are based off 1220 and don't assume that the things there continue to be true in the unexplored future. If in 1230 a magus of Stonehenge announces a new Hermetic Breakthrough (and starts offering shares in a hot tub manufactury) then all I have to do is modify the future and not the past.
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What I am wondering about, actually, is if Perdo Vim can be used on another magus to supress the effects of the Gift altogether; i.e. stop them from casting spells for the duration of the Perdo Vim spell. Is there anything like that in any of the books?
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That should be possible unless the Gift is part of the magus' essential nature. It is not mentioned in the chapter on Hermetic Limits, so I would be inclined to allow it. Many troupes may require a breakthrough for a new guideline. I am sure the level would be high either way. Does 60 sound fair as a guideline?
There is a spell called Paralysis of the Gift, which reduces the casting total for its duration. It's possible to increase the penalty to casting, and to lengthen the spell. But frankly, using this kind of magic is against the oath. Destroying the gift is likely a breakthrough, yes, and just trying to research that kind of spell is likely to get you marched if anyone finds out.
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Only if the target too has sworn the Oath, but you are right. Nobody would want to be known to have published the lab text.
Hermetic magi consider themselves so superior to other gifted that most magi would assume someone working on that spell intends to use it on other hermetic magi, and not think for a minute it could be developped for legitimate reasons like dealing with hedge wizards and rival traditions.
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There is a ReVi Guideline on ArM5 p.161 box:
Sustain or suppress a spell cast by another ...
Make sure to apply the errata.
This inspires HoH:S p.129 box New Spell Guideline
Sustain or suppress a spell of a specific type cast by another ...
A useful example there is Quiet the Cursing Tongue.
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I was thinking more of supressing the Gift than destroying it. However, I see that various Perdo spells have Momentary durations, e.g. PeCo spells. The damage done is permanent, although PeMe spells all appear to have durations no longer than Moon. As for it being against the Oath, I'd say it depends on how Hermetic Law is interpreted and enforced in any given saga, but there's no crime until a magus actually deprives or attempts to deprive another magus of their Gift. It's certainly not against the Oath if such a spell is used on a magus who's already been cast out of the Order.
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The Settuten (African hedge tradition, see Between Sand and Sea p94-106) do have an ability that can suppress the Gift and other Supernatural virtues.
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I am not sure what non-momentary Perdo does or may mean. I would have to read through a lot of spells and guidelines to be sure. However, there is always the option of using Muto to change the Gift into Venus' Blessing or some other more or less harm less supernatural air. At least, I would allow that, somewhere in the tenth to twentieth magnitude range.