New character development

I figured we need a new thread so we don´t have to start on page 17.

If this topic posts, it seems i can access the group :wink:

I would like to try out playing a Criamon. Is that generally ok for you? I got HoH: Mystery Cults and i will get the Rhine tribunal book from a friend on sunday. After reading that i will get into detailed character creation.

Criamon are interesting characters - and their domus magna is in the Alps - so he could be from there (Native language there is like Scottish English compared to London English, see GoTF p. 138).
In GoTF, there are Criamon magi: p. 67, p. 83 Insert, p. 85, p. 90; also look at GoTF Vs&Fs p. 20.
Playing a Criamon means Stigmata, of course (which magic can't remove - but the book doesn't say can't disguise). So, in the long run, a Criamon cannot move among mundane humans without causing quite a stir unless s/he has some Imagonem spell.
Two years past Gauntlet means that you should not have a deeply initiated character (leave that for game time).

You can read the Rhine Gorge chapter (since I will modify it anyway). But if you are not too familiar with the Tribunal, you could play a young magus from another tribunal.

I suggest you start with a concept and Vs&Fs

Just realized that you gave Mainz as the place you live. So, I won't have to explain Mythic Germany to you.

Here is my first go of Arturous, comments welcomed

Arturous of Tytalus
House: Tytalus Age: 22(22) Size: 0 Confidence: 2/5
Decrepitude: 0 Warping: 0 (0) Gender: Male Nationality:English
Height: 5'11 Weight: 180
Hair: Black Eyes: Gray
Parens: Primus

Background Story:

Excerpt from the special convening of the Stonehenge tribunal, Anno Arietis 1354, subscribed from latin by Thomas of Lanchester

Following the official investigation into the death of Master Geoffrey Cethegus of Tytalus and the destruction of the convent of Black Cliff, and after hearing the testimonials and confessions of Arturous of York, we pass the following verdict:

That having committed high crimes; dabbling with the Infernal, consorting with Demons and endangering our Order through his actions, Master Aleron Merula of Tytalus is herefore cast out. He who can provide evidence of being responsible for his demise shall be awarded the sum of two rocks of vis, paid for by the Stonehenge tribunal.

That having committed high crimes; dabbling with the Infernal, consorting with Demons, meddling into the affairs of mortals and endangering our Order through his actions, Master Primus of Tytalus is herefore cast out. Having been captured and brought to stand trial by Jerome Ahenobarbus of Flambeau, Primus’s sentence will be carried out immediately, according to the verdict of this tribunal.

That the convent of Black Cliff is hereby dissolved; its stores of Vis, tomes and magical items and goods shall be transferred to the possession of the Stonehenge tribunal, following an inspection by the Quaesitores, to do with as they see fit.

That the apprentices of Primus; Arturous of York and William of London, while being a party to the above mentioned crimes, are absolved of all guilt by virtue of their uninitiated status and will be hereby handed to new masters from the Stonehenge tribunal.

That the apprentice of Aleron; Anatalia of Muscovy, while being a party to the above mentioned crimes, is absolved of all guilt by virtue of her uninitiated status. Anatalia must appear before this tribunal by year’s end, and submit to the tribunal inquiries as to her actions and whereabouts pertaining to the incident at Black Cliff.

That the judgment of this special tribunal will be conveyed to all our brethren, in every tribunal, in every province, so the above mentioned crimes shall be made known to all.

The Quaesitores shall launch an immediate investigation of masters, apprentices and known associates of the accursed Cabal of Black Cliff, to ensure that the corruption has not spread further into the midst of our Order.
We deliver our judgment before the tribunal, in good faith, this month of Aries
Quaesitore Tiberius Tuditanus

End Excerpt

Arturous is a tall athletic man in his prime. His Stone-cast features betray little emotion, while his cold, black eyes are set deep in his pale face. His raven black hair is always cropped short and his beard meticulously trimmed. He is usually clad in heavy black robes of simple design.

Intelligence: +3, calculating
Perception: +0

Com: +1, logical
Presence: +2, respected

Strength: +0
Stamina: +0

Dexterity +0
Quickness: +0

Personality Traits
Grim +3
Spartan +2
Compassionate +1

Strong willed , Clear thinker, Piercing gaze ,Cautious sorcerer ,Book learner ,Method caster - while pacing toward the target
Improved characteristics ,Inventive genius,Life boost ,Minor magical focus (fear)
Self confident (free), The Gift (free), magus of Hermes (free)

Deficient form (Herbem) -minor, Diabolic past (story, major), Lost love - Anatalia, which has been possessed by an archdemon, (minor, personality), Magic addiction (major), Warped magic - feeling of dread (minor), Weakness - Anatalia (minor)

English – 5, vulgar argot
Brawl -1, dodge
Area Lore (York)-1, geography
Athletics -1, running
Awareness -1, alertness
Folk ken -2, the opposite sex
Swim – 1, long distances
Guile – 1, elaborate lies

Artes liberals – 1, logic
Latin – 4, technical vocabulary
Magic theory – 3, Rego
Parma Magica – 1, mentem
Order of Hermes lore – 1, personalities
Infernal lore – 2, demons
Penetration – 1. rego
Concentration – 2, spell concentration

High German - 4, expansive vocabulary
Area Lore (Bavaria) -1, geography
Theology - 1

Cr 0
In 0
Mu 0
Pe 0
Re 10

An 0
Aq 0
Au 0
He 0
Ig 0
Im 0
Me 10
Te 0
Vi 0


Creo Mentem:
Words of unspoken silence (10)
Panic of the trembling heart (15)

Rego Mentem:
Aura of rightful authority (20)
Confusion of the numbed will (15)
Visions of the infernal terrors (30)

Rego Vim:
Circular ward against demons (15)
Gather the essence of the beast (15)

You are not making it easy for yourself with those flaws - it will be difficult for a diabolist to get permission to found a covenant.
Warped Magic is tough.
The virtues are helpful.

But as a Tytalus - you should be happy about a challenge.

You may NOT take any fancy kind of inferal special abilities - since I do not have RoP: Infernal (only borrowed it once to read).

Btw, I will remodel my own character (to fill the gaps you leave) when I can see where yours are going.

I will be more helpful with access to labs, vis and a personal grog if you are connected to the Rhine Tribunal (I decide what connected means).
So you might want to move your apprenticeships closer to the Rhine if you crave these boons.

If you get a shield grog, do not make it yourself.

Here is a starting character idea Just out of gauntlet. I'm still playing with him. He has another virtue he can get. I used Civil engineer as a profession. i'm trying to describe someone who can build roads/bridges/arches/buildings, ect. No background yet.

Name: Honorus ex Tremere Birth Name:
House: Tremere Age: 27(27) Size: 0 Confidence: 1/3
Decrepitude: Warping: Gender: Male Nationality:German Height: 5'6 Weight: 125
Hair: Black Eyes: Gray Handedness: Right Religion: none Title: Magus

Int +3
Per 0
Pre +1,
Com +2
Str 0
Sta +1
Dex 0,
Qik -1

The Gift, Educated (50/50) +0
Harenarius (Master two Certamen Schools: ) +1
Skilled Parens +1
Elemental Magic,+3
Affinity with Rego, +1
Affinity with Terram, +1
Book Learner (Book Quality: +3),+1
Hermetic Magus, +0
Improved Characteristics, +1
Minor Magical Focus (Certamen) +0

Mentor (Statorius ), +3
Driven (Convert Elementalist to hermatic magic), +3
Weak Magic Resistance (When not touching some aspect of the earth ( dirt,stone,metal)), +3
Pessimistic +1

Reputations: Master Duelist 0, Brave +2, Respectful +3

Dodge: Init: -1, Attack --, Defense +1, Damage --
Fist: Init: -1, Attack +1, Defense +0, Damage +0
Kick: Init: -2, Attack +1, Defense -1, Damage +3
Soak: +1

Fatigue levels: OK, 0, -1, -3, -5, Unconscious
Wound Penalties: -1 (1-5), -3 (6-10), -5 (11-15), Incapacitated (16-20)

German 5, Artes Liberales 2 (geometry),
Profession: Civil Engineer 2,
Romansh 2 (expansive vocabulary),
Latin 4,
Parma Magica 1 (Mentem),
Magic Theory 4 (inventing spells),
Finesse 1 (targeting),
Philosophiae 1 (metaphysics),
Code of Hermes 1 (mundane relations),
Awareness 1 (determining effect),
Bargain 2,
Brawl 1 (Dodge),
Concentration 1 (spell concentration),
Guile 2 (elaborate lies),
Intrigue 1 (plotting),
Survival 1,
Swim 1,
Single Weapon 2 (Mace),
Penetration 1 (Creo)

Cr 6
In 6
Mu 6
Pe 6
Re 11

An 0
Aq 6
Au 6
Co 5
He 1
Ig 6
Im 4
Me 4
Te 10,
Vi 3

Encumbrance: 0 (0)

Spells Known:
Footsteps of Slippery Oil (CrAq 5) +13
Crest of the Earth Wave (ReTe 20) +22
Circular Ward Against Demons (ReVi 15) +15
Wall of Protecting Stone (CrTe 25) +17
Pit of the Gaping Earth (PeTe 15) +17
Obliteration of the Metallic Barrier (Pe(Re)Te 20) +17

Wizard's Leap (ReCo(Te) 15) +17. The caster instantly transports himself up to 50 paces in any direction, provided he can see his destination or has an arcane connection to it. His Tailisman comes with him automatically but casting requisites are required to bring along any other clothing or equipment. this spell is very effective as a fast cast defense to escape attacks or other mishaps, and can be used for bypassing obstacles or launching surprise attacks.

Stone Palanquin (ReTe(Au) 20) +22. Enchants a stone, large enough to bear the caster, to carry him along at his mental direction. The stone moves with a speed, direction, and height above the ground that he decides (maximum speed as of a galloping horse, maximum height of 50 paces above the ground). The stone can only maneuver across terrain that can support it, and so cannot cross water or crevasses without sinking unless they are no more than 50 paces deep. If the caster directs the stone to maneuver rapidly, he may be forced to make a Dexterity + Agility roll or fall from the stone. A cloud will surround the stone and caster to hide from prying eyes.(Base 3, +1 Touch, +2 Sun, +0 Ind, +1 for enhanced effect)

Redited Arturous - added abilities, personality traits, spells and arts.


  • Good to see a Tremere, makes my job easier (I recommend a master from Roznov, for story reasons), the Certamen skills may come in handy

  • looks promising

  • some specialties are still missing.

a few details (non manndatory)

  • rank is Journeyman, not Magus
  • I wonder where the free eduacated virtue comes from - but as long as you invest the points into (mostly) cosmetic skills (like you did), I see no reason to stop you.
  • Mentor as a Major Story Flaw is unusual and a bit cheesy (and considering how close-knit the Tremere are...)
  • Book-Learner may not be as good as you think (you start with no covenant and no books - unless you do the copy slave act for Durenmar...)
  • I'd replace skilled Parens with a Gild Virtue from GotF - they are nearly the same - and try to have no overlap with the others - because it'll help you.
  • only 100 levels of spells: 20 missing
  • has got lots of positive reputations, or are they personality traits, pessimistic doesn't show (and doesn't seem to fit brave), unless your character concept explains that
  • look at gozer, too - comment to help (not to discuss minor rules points)


  • very young character (usually there are at least 2 more childhood years before apprenticeship - jebrick has got 7 - which is why his character has become "stronger" - not that it matters)
  • you can't cast Hands of the Grasping Earth (Mu Req)
  • you chose a specialist - it's good that he's part of a group!
  • Are you sure about his coming from England? He doesn't even speak German - which devaluates his Mentem greatly (I can read his innermost thoughts. He thinks: Jetzt würde ich gerne ein paar Erdbeeren vom Bauch der schönen Schreiberin essen.); and Gozer scratches his head and wonders...
  • look at jebrick, too - comment to help (not to discuss minor rules points)

Two years missing (past Gauntlet)

  • So invest another 60xp

  • 1 spell level = 1 xp

  • Rhine magi start with 2 pawns form vis

  • you can use the guest rules to use labs (3 pawns/year payable after use; so you can use one/more seasons to extract vis)

  • teachers are available for all non-exotic skills (including mastery) and Arts up to level 5

  • ask for other stuff if you want to do that

  • you may join a Mystery cult but only take 1 -one- minor virtue initiation (for 10xp, plus Cult Lore skill xp) - I might veto Cults that are not in TMRE or HoH: MC

  • say how and where you spent the time

I need to add 2 more years to him.

Small adjustments. I will update the skills when I get home. Still thinking about Book learning

The Gift, +0
Educated (50/50) +1
Harenarius (Master two Certamen Schools: ) +1
Guild trained (Ash )+1
Elemental Magic,+3
Affinity with Rego, +1
Affinity with Terram, +1
Book Learner (Book Quality: +3),+1
Journeyman Mage, +0
Improved Characteristics, +1
Minor Magical Focus (Certamen) +0

Animal companion (wolf)+1
Mentor (Bauin - parens) +1
Delusional (Haunted by grandfather) +1
Driven (Convert Elementalist Hedge magic to hermatic magic), +3
Weak Magic Resistance (When not touching some aspect of the earth ( dirt,stone,metal)), +3
Ambitious +1

Reputations: Master Duelist 0(2), Brave +2, Respectful +3,

He believes he is haunted by his grandparens. A crotchety man that mettled into everyone's affairs. His delusion gives him advice and argues with him. He can and will converse with it at any time. Honorius understand that other people can not see his grandparens but at least they can benefit from his wisdom.

Lots of story flaws and personality flaws - not quite what p. 37 ArM5 suggests

I think another real weakness will only make your character more interesting (or just remove some virtues)

btw: I recommend some spell to warm your feet - walking without shoes can be very cold in winter.

A ring or stone pendent works as well. He does not have to be touching the ground at all times.

You are trying to be invincible here - in this saga, you fight wolves, minor fairies and mundanes mostly (at least at the beginning): magi don't die as easily as you seem to think. And there's no story potential without weaknesses to overcome!

The Restriction Guideline says: Touching the earth directly - and calls this "uncommon". Weak resistance speaks of "relatively common". It is okay for me if this includes stone floors - which is hugely generous - but a ring can be worn at all times (I am married so I know exactly what I am talking about, so it is not a restriction). So as soon as you put on shoes or climb a tree or a wooden tower, or ride your skateboard, the big baddie can grill you: That's why it has the same category as Twilight Prone, Waster of Vis or Weak Spontaneous Magic.

As for the Story flaw: Why not favors? You'd owe them to your house (which most young Tremere do anyway)

Ok, i read up on Guardians of the forest and HoH:Mystery Cults.

I know you proposed a mage coming from the greater Alps but what about this:

My mage was an apprentice to a rhine tribunal mage. None of the named Criamon mages from the book though, as i dont think anyone of these would fit. He is part of a guild (probably Linden) and therefor has a reason to stay in the tribunal. After completing his gauntlet, he visited the Cave of twisting shadows and learned some Criamon specific skills. Possibly he gets intiated into the first station of his path. With his new knowledge he returns to the Rhine to find a covenant.

That would give him a sound reason to be in the rhine tribunal and have him positioned in the guild structure.

Sounds ok?
Numbers are coming soon.

@zlorfink: okay, which path?

The path of seeming sounds the most interesting to me.

Although the first station grants (amongst others) the virtue Common Sense, which i dont really like. Maybe substitute a virtue that gives perception +1? But the other two are cool, so if not, thats fine with me.

@zlorfik: I'll delay my decision until I see which other powers/skills/etc the characters has