New CharGen Ideas

No problem. Any suggestions instead of dutybound?
In medieval games I actually like a little bit of racism since imo increases the believability of the setting. But since I oppose it actively in real life and am well aware of the sensitivity of the topic I have no problem downplaying it.

Dutybound works fine, it just depends on how you define "duty". Instead of being bound to dogma or ideology, your Duty could be a code of honor, dedicated to keeping your word, feeling that it is your duty to protect the innocent, and so on.

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Good. Being a good christian. Not killing prisoners, keeping your word, etc. Even if it means saving heretics under your charge from (rightful, educated, sensible and well informed) angry mobs of peasants that want to hang them and torch them, not necessarily in that order. Gotcha.

Mateu is ready to go.

Ok, I based Mateu on a grog you had on the website. Looking at the house rules of the saga he is awfully underskilled. It comes up he should be 24 years old, not 32! I am tinkering with him as follows:

  1. Remove Warrior for Relic (a toe bone of Saint Cugat). This decreases his XP allowance and grants him a (laughable) magic resistance, but I find it is thematic so I like it even if I lose contact with other warriors in the background. Hospitallier will need to make up for that.
  2. Decrease single Weapon to 5+2. High, but not as high.
  3. Add Chirurgy 2 (flesh wounds) and Medicine 1 (diagnosis). Thematic for his Order even if I expect never to use those abilities.

With those changes he will be 26 years old. so he is younger, but still a warrior that has seen the field.

Can I have a superior or excellent longsword? Name of the sword is Ora Fidelium in any case. it is where the relic is located. I will have the sword by that name even if it is a regular sword. It sounds cheesy-cool, and this always beats "longsword" in my book. :stuck_out_tongue:


Well, if you talk to Donna... I'd have to see where her projects are at this point...

You can have Donna make one for you. But that would be after you come to Andorra. To come with one already in hand, the HRs allow you to spend XP instead (as an abstract).
If the character has access to Expensive armaments.
Superior (+1 Attack) = 2xp
Supreme (+1 Attack & +1 Damage) = 4xp
Excellent (+2 Attack & +2 Damage) = 12xp
Exceptional (+3 Attack & +3 Damage) = 24xp

The formula is qp (or xp) equal to twice the pyramid value of each bonus provided.
Items of Quallity

Any better than +3/+3 has to be gained in play. Siveroak's character Donna can make a weapon that is as good as +5/+5. Maybe.

by city and guild RAW, she could produce multiple +5/+5 longswords in a season. base longsword per season is 2, and Donna can produce 3x that number based on her skill level- so 6 swords a season. While it indicated that it takes more skill to make an excellent item there is no indication that it takes more time: meaning donna could, in theory, make 6 +5/+5 swords in a season.
The rules assume a typical ability score of 5 (which determines the quantity that can be produced) and a typical workshop value of 6 (which determines quality), where Donna has an ability score of 15 and a workshop total of 29... notably in terms of producing excellent items she only benefits from this point onwards from gaining ability (assuming the limit to bonus of 3x ability) and further workshop refining and assistant bonuses are only useful for craft enchanted weapons...

Ah. Nice. Hadn't seen then rules in XP terms.

Yes, I have access to expensive armaments due to being a knight hospitallier. In this case I will procure an excellent (+2, +2) weapon for Mateu with the relic embedded in the crossguard. 12 XP is expensive but I think it is worth the effort. A very good mundane weapon. It already has a name.

EDIT: Edited the previous post with the updated profile for Mateu. Ready to go. :slight_smile:

The rules in C&G are obviously broken then. But I am not going to quibble about it. And I suppose I get what I deserve for not paying close attention to character scores. Ability 15 is kind of outrageous. But it is not a deal breaker for me. Though I would plead for some sort of self-limitation. My suggestion is that she can make 6 regular swords in a season, presuming proper materials and assistance. Each + reduces the number by one.

This is not a ruling. This is just me saying "Ouch! That is broken. How can we fix it?". By my estimate (mind you, I am a chef, not a blacksmith), it should take a month to make a regular sword, a week if you use power tools, and two or three times as long for a high quality work of art sword.

Since this is the only character you are actively playing, I would suggest elevating him to Companion rank. Start with a Confidence score of 1, and take two or three more points of Virtues & Flaws. Carlos clocks in at a modest +5/-5. Not a powerful companion, but more than just a grog.

As supplement to my magus - the Woad - I've made a grog "Selim the caravaner".

Selim is born in North Africa, his uncle is a merchant with connections to the covenant.
At the covenant in Andorra he works at the stables and goes out with teams of animals for trade and travel. He has spent a lot of time in North Africa, driving caravas to and fro.

Apart from his animal skills he is sharp-eyed, a fair archer, and quite the charming people person.

Selim the caravaner
Characteristics: Int +1, Per +2, Pre +1, Com +1, Str 0, Sta +1, Dex 0, Qik 0
Size: 0
Age: 22 (22), Height: 168 cm, Weight: 72 kg, Gender: Male
Decrepitude: 0
Warping Score: 0 (0)
Virtues and Flaws: Keen Vision (Sight: +3), Covenfolk, Well-Traveled (50/50), Warrior (50/50), Compassionate, Missing Ear (Hearing: -3), Carefree
Dagger: Init: -1, Attack +4, Defense +2, Damage +3
Dodge: Init: -1, Attack --, Defense +2, Damage --
Bow, Short: Init: -3, Attack +7, Defense +4, Damage +6
Fist: Init: -1, Attack +2, Defense +2, Damage +0
Kick: Init: -2, Attack +2, Defense +1, Damage +3
Soak: +2
Fatigue levels: OK, 0, -1, -3, -5, Unconscious
Wound Penalties: -1 (1-5), -3 (6-10), -5 (11-15), Incapacitated (16-20), Dead (21+)
Abilities: Arabic 5, Area Lore: Andorra 2, Area Lore: North Africa 4, Animal Handling 4, Awareness 4, Brawl 2, Occitan 3, Survival 4, Ride 4, Charm 4, Bows 4
Equipment: Quilted Armor (Soak: 2) (Soak: 2; Protection: 1)
Encumbrance: 2 (2)

I don't think the rules in C&G ever attempted to take into account somebody with an ability score of 15. That is...mind boggling. A 'senior craft master' is assumed to have a score of 7.

The rules in C&G seem to assume non optimized characters. Sagas that do not push boundaries like this one. If they seem to assume a lab total of 6-7 and she has 29 I wouldn't fault C&G :wink: She is playing with power alright xD

Regarding Mateu it is fine for me to play him as a grog. He is a test character: if I find I enjoy the overall power level of the saga I will come to you with other characters (and/or a redesign of Mateu). In a sense he is truly acting as an evaluator of the magi, only for me as a player and not for his hospitallier superiors :wink: I want to use a grog before I over-commit and leave you and myself frustrated. Better safe than sorry here.

I've been thinking - I might even want to re-design Selim as a Companion. He already seems useful yet specialized, but as a Companion he may be even wider skilled

The irony is that I keep asking people to not push boundaries, and I discourage min-maxing. I am also not a fan of powerful characters that are not Hermetic magi.
I need to take the time to examine the character and find out what went wrong. There is something broken in my development HRs that is being inadvertently exploited, and I need to fix it.

I am not putting a kabosh on Donna. I just want to make sure that something like this doesn't happen again. Silveroak followed legit rules and should not be punished (though maybe admonished for pushing boundaries that far, and I am guessing the character is lacking some essential abilities &/or is taking advantage of "dump stats").

For the future: No min-maxing, no pushing the limits, no one-dimensional characters. Donna is fine. The character has been around for years and I never noticed the extreme score. It is my fault, not Silveroak.

He might not have even done that. Andorra is an extremely wealthy covenant. You ask for something and you get it. Easy to build up when this is the case. And nothing wrong with it. My impression is tha the rules were written for sagas lasting 20 years max and with a tight covenant budget. When you break that mould things escalate rapidly.

You don't need to blame your rules, the core rules are fairly broken on their own- an affinity here and a puissant ability there, a wealthy virtue, an older character, some intense study... AM has long been the 'victim' of rules escalation between people who don't want magi characters to be able to do everything and people who want their non-magi characters to have significance, as well as rules being written with ignorance of other rules and how they interact.

I have thought more about it. Every character gets to exploit a little trick. You admittedly munchinized it, but set that aside. My true issue with Donna is that she doesn't do anything. I know, I know, I don't give her anything. I have a lot of plates spinning trying to manage a very large game. This is why I need co-storyguides, and I need people to be proactive in getting their characters involved in stories. If you have a story-flaw, you need to talk about it more often.
Character Backstory Tips
Now, I am examining Donna on the wiki. She is a strange character. She needs to be played and made sense of.
As for her Ability score and the top quality she can make, that is not an issue either. It is how fast she can make them that bothers me, and that has everything to do with Workshop rules from C&G. In my opinion, she should be able to manage a shop that makes several good weapons, but it should take a season of her undivided focus to make a +5/+5 weapon.
Can you throw me a link to the current updated Donna and her Workshop? I will read up on the C&G rules. Not gonna squash anything. I just want to wrap my head around it.

My 'current' version is at home on excel and probably needs some more actual updating- weekend tie is family time so I will get to it Monday and post the results on the wiki.

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Oh bugger - there is already a companion named Selim, I just found that on the “Andorra 1245” thread.

I guess I’ll just find a new name for a caravaner Companion. Maybe Kemal.