New CharGen Ideas

I sometimes have a terrible time finding things in the many ArM books. Unfortunately, information is spread in a haphazard way throughout the various books, which doesn't lend to finding it very easily. I skimmed through some of what appeared to me the most promising sourcebooks, but found nothing. However, that doesn't mean that there isn't a passage in one of the books I didn't look at that provides the rules you recall.

Maybe in the hermetic menagerie from hermetic projects (I think)?

I wanted to see Woad make a MC script to give horses he trains immune to Gift After he indoctrinated them into his horse cult of course :innocent:

Hermetic projects has the menagerie for breeding magical animals. I do not recall something to make overcome the effects of the Gift in animals but I have not read that part closely.

I've skimmed over the chapter on magical beasts in Hermetic Projects and as I see it you have a few options, some easier than others. (And some more ethical.)

The first option is to keep Warping horses until you get one that gets immunity to the Gift when it reaches a Warping Score of 5. That's a pretty awful way to do this since you'd have to Warp a lot of horses and get them to pretty high Warping scores. Furthermore, since it might take a while to get one to become immune to the Gift, you'd have a lot of Warped horses to deal with. Also, the trait would not be inheritable.

The second option is to find a magical horse out there somewhere that is naturally immune to the Gift and try and breed it so that the Gift immunity inherits.

The third option is to find a normal horse out there somewhere that is naturally immune to the Gift and try and breed it so that the Gift immunity inherits. It stands to reason that just as there is the occasional person who is immune to the effects of the Gift that there would be occasional horses that were also immune to the effects of the Gift. Now, it would probably be very hard to find one, but if you did, it would be just eh breeding stock you needed.

Of course that's just what HP has to say. Who knows if you could do some kind of equine initiation using those rules to make a horse immune to the Gift.

In any case, those are the thoughts off the top of my head.

In my Rhine saga the magi found some ponies with Unaffected by the Gift, and they’ve begun a breeding program, in cooperation with that Tremere vexillation who has faerie houses with this trait, which doesn’t otherwise breed true

I invented a system to roll for a male line with the inherited traits, with bonus for quality of buildings, food, aura, number of magical mares, magic assistance etc.
The system has almost no chance of success from the start, because it is not supposed to be easy. But it accumulates bonus over the years so eventually it’s succeed.

FWIW, Hermetic Projects (pp. 140-142) provides optional rules for breeding animals, particularly breeding for Supernatural Virtues. (Though I note that Unaffected by the Gift is a General Virtue, not a Supernatural one.)

I think I was simply deriving from training that while there may be a -3 penalty still for control rolls, under normal usage the animal will obey commands from its master, which an include a gifted, or even blatantly gifted magus.

That goes to the heart of the question I've always had about the Gift, whether it's dealing with animals or people - namely, is it just a -3 to all social checks or is it more than that?

By this I mean, would a magus with a Charm (overcoming the Gift) 5 be as effective as a person with a Charm 3 (i.e., better than average)? Or does the Gift impose penalties beyond just a -3 on all social checks? Can a magus with Animal Handling (horses) 5 tend to a horse better than a mundane person with an Animal Handling of 2? Or is there an effect of the Gift that goes beyond that simple -3?

For my part, I've always interpreted the Gift as something more. I've always imagined that when a Gifted person approaches a new person they have to deal with that new person immediately mistrusting them and that such feelings are the default. Then, if the Gifted person wants to accomplish some social task (e.g., bargain for a room, get some information, convince a guard to let them pass), they could make an appropriate Attribute check, albeit at a -3.

But I've always seen that as being transactional. You might convince the innkeeper to tell you some information about the local lord, but once he's given you that information he's back to mistrusting you. Succeeding in the roll doesn't make him dislike you any less. And even if you have a Charm of 5, it just means that you're pretty good at convincing him to do things for you despite the fact that he thinks you're no good. The moment you stop actively charming him, he goes back to thinking you're the worst.

Gifted people getting along with animals is a bit harder for me to grapple with. The quote I cited above says that Gifted people can't ride horses without magical aid and can never train dogs to recognize them as friends. It doesn't say that Gifted people suffer a -3 to Ride checks. If all that was required to ride a horse was a successful Ride check, then a sufficiently high Ride attribute would easily overcome the Gift. I've always assumed that Ride 1 or 2 was sufficient to ride a horse under normal circumstances (i.e., noncombat, horse is calm). But the above quote seems to state that a Gifted person with Ride 5 could not ride a horse as well as a non-Gifted person with a Ride 2, even under ideal circumstances. Similarly, according to the above quote, a Gifted maga with Handle Animal (dogs) 6 could still not get a dog to recognize her as a friend, though she might train it to perform discrete tasks for her. But as soon as the maga stopped actively directing the dog to do something, it would immediately revert to growling and snapping at her.

As I understand the rules, the moment the Gifted person stops actively trying to push an animal to do something, the animal reverts to its default position of fearing and hating the Gifted person. It seems to me a good explanation for why a Gifted person can't ride a horse. A sufficiently skilled Gifted person might be able to control the horse enough to mount it and maybe even get it to move around a few paces. But no one could sustain that effort over the time required to ride a horse anywhere.

Of course, all bets are off with magic. And if you managed to find a horse with the Unaffected by the Gift virtue you'd be golden. But those are the exceptions, not the rule.

In any case, that's always been my interpretation about how the Gift works. I'd love to hear whether that's similar or at odds with the way other people interpret it.

I invented a really simple system for players to determine if the children of their characters are born with The Gift. Just roll 80 or better on a stress die. Three "1"s followed by a "10" on the fourth die. Or four 1s and a 5 or better. Odds are slightly better than 1 in ten-thousand. I even have a list of secret modifiers. A parent with the Gift is a bonus. Being born or conceived in Andorra is a bonus. Feeding the mother vis cakes is a bonus. Lots of bonuses. Thing is, stack the bonuses as you may, the odds only get a tiny bit better until you get +8. Then the odds are 1 in five-thousand. At+16 the odds are 1 in 3,333.

No body has even bothered to make a roll. And with so many children born here! There have been at least three people in the last century conceived &/or born here that have the Gift. Carmen of Flambeau, Edith of Flambeau, and Belladona (who is Fleur's apprentice and now has a different name that I forget).

Intriguing. Here at Andorra, we have interesting elements that could be developed into some sort of menagerie. We have the storm sheep from Asgard. How long do sheep live? That was at least ten years ago in game time. Their wool is/was an Auram vis source. No one paid much attention to breeding them or anything. As low powered unintelligent magic animals, they may be ageless. Or I can be mean and say that the have the Ageing flaw. Or maybe they are just beasts of virtue.

I just looked it up. Sheep average 10 to 12 years. It is fair to say that these guys are still around, but are very old sheep.

And the three owlbear eggs! I am going to rule that they have not hatched but are still alive. They are being magically preserved somehow. Or maybe there is some ritual needed to complete the process. Or maybe you just don't know.

Yes but those mechanics are for individuals. We wanted to track the trait in a larger population

I did not know about this. (I think.)

I should probably roll for Vibria's children, Maria and Artur; Mayhew, Lucia and Epona's son (I know where he was conceived, but I don't really know who the father actually is); and maybe FĂ©dora's children (Saam, the half-fairy; and Vulcanus's children Velund, Anneke, and Ivar).

Sheep live 10-12 years, reach sexual maturity at 6 months, have a 5 month gestation period, mate once a year and have one to 2 offspring, meaning the numbers of sheep should increase by 50% per year assuming normal sex distribution and breeding patterns, before taking into account mortality rates- if for simplicity sake we reduce the annual growth rate by 10% to 40% growth per year after 10 years we would be looking at roughly 32 times as many sheep (and as much vis?) as we were originally given...

There are three storm sheep. All female. No one has put any thought or effort into breeding them. And we don't have any other sheep.

Sounds like we need the same solution as during a [edit: SIEGE not bloody suede, bleedin’ autocorrect!): Bring our the big ram!

I don’t envision the Woad being terribly interested in animals and breeding them. Not after I dropped the ideas of horse training.
He might help by searching and hunting, although he has no magical means of catching them...not alive anyway.

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Maybe not, but Fleur has an interest in breeding related topics. Once her amber glove is enchanted, this could be productive. Where would we find a magical ram? Asgaard again?

It wasn't Asgard per se. It is on the way there we found them. It was an adventure Ryu (Vulcanus) ran long ago. A tower in Wadanzee. Go to the top flooor, and out the window is a regio. We found the sheep floating out there. Keep traveling the sky in that rego land, and we get to Asgard.

Ok, I messed up replying with my phone. The character is now under Marko's reply to said character

Groovy. I do recommend that you play down the religion angle. I mean, he is who he is and we can work with that. But I do not want any racism or Islamophobia in my game. Remember the confrontation you had with Roberto?

Mateu de BesalĂș, Knight hospitallier

Current Year: 1245
Age: 26 (26)
Born: 1219
Size: 0
Decrepitude: 0
Warping: 0
Gender: Male
Nationality: Catalan
Religion: Christian
Profession: Hospitallier
Height: 5'8" (172 cm)
Weight: 165 lbs (75 kg)
Hair: Black
Eyes: Brown
Handedness: Right
Personality Traits: Brave +1, Reckless +3, Sucker for new experiences +3, Dutybound to ideals +2
Reputation:

Characteristics

Intelligence: 0
Perception: 0
Strength: +2
Stamina: +1
Presence: +1
Communication: 0
Dexterity: +1
Quickness: +1

Virtues

Brother-Knight Hospitallier
Puissant Single Weapon
Relic

Flaws

Craving for Travel
Dutybound
Reckless

Abilities

Animal Handling (horses) 1
Area Lore: Andorra Covenant (soldiers) 1
Area Lore: Catalonia (border areas) 3
Area Lore: Iberia (Moorish domains) 2
Artes Liberales (arithmetic) 1
Athletics (running) 2
Awareness (searching) 3
Brawl (dagger) 3
Charm (nobles) 2
Chirurgy (flesh wounds) 2
Civil & Canon Law (papal law) 1
Etiquette (nobles) 3
Folk Ken (soldiers) 3
Great Weapon (long spear) 2
Guile (to soldiers) 2
Intrigue (covered treats) 2
Language: Arabic (soldierly) 3
Language: Latin (ecclesiastical) 3
Language: Occitan (native; Catalan) 5
Leadership (mounted) 2
Medicine (diagnosis) 1
Ride (combat) 3
Single Weapon (long sword) 5+2 (3)
Theology (psalms) 1

Equipment

Dagger
Longsword “Ora Fidelium” ( Edge of the Faithful). Excellent (+2 +2) longsword. Ora Fidelium includes a relic of Sant Cugat in her crossguard
Shield, Heater
Lance
Horses (Caliph and Emir)
Mail haubergeon with coif (prot 5 load 2) OR Full Chain Mail (prot 10, load 6)

Load: 5 (9 in full chain armor) (lance used only when mounted so load not factored)
Encumbrance: 0 (1 in full chain armor)
Burden: 2 (3 in full chain ad helmet)

Combat

Weapon Init Atk Def Dmg
Fist / Dodge +0 +4 +4 +2
Kick -1 +4 +3 +5
Dagger +0 +7 +5 +5
Long Sword +2 +14 +11 +8
Long Sword & Shield +2 +14 +14 +8
Lance & Shield (mtd.)* +3 +15 +14 +7

+3 Attk & Def if mounted (high ground)
Lance already counts the +3 mounted bonus and no load

Soak: +6 (+11 in full chain and open helmet, -1 Perception rolls)
Fatigue levels: OK, 0, -1, -3, -5, Unconscious
Wound Penalties: -1 (1-5), -3 (6-10), -5 (11-15), Incapacitated (16-20), Dead (21+)

Mateu is a Hospitallier Brother Knight. He comes from a minor noble family near BesalĂș, but he entered the Knights of St John at a young age since he could not inherit being the third son in the line. He is a veteran of the constant warfare in Iberia, and a staunch defender of his faith. Like many of his Order he is somewhat less radical in its predisposition towards other faiths than other Milites Christi, but still thinks that non-Christians are better off making their case heard in the court at Purgatory. Still, he takes his bows of protecting the weak and upholding his word very seriously and would not allow even infernalists to be killed if they were under his care.

He has been in several postings in the frontier, with constant patrols and an active life for a long time. However, 5 years ago he was rewarded for good service with a return to more quiet areas, near the Pyrenees. He has hated it from day one. There is no action here! No travel, no adventure! He has been performing his duties, but he craves his time in the saddle doing what he knows best: bringing the word of Christ to the infidels using the sharp end of a weapon and the holy might that the holy relic of the small toe bone of Sant Cugat brings him.

Recently he was assigned to the church of Vilamur, and there he learned about the covenant of sorcerers of Andorra. After a few (some would say tsunami) of letters to his superiors he got permission to investigate the covenant and its activities to see that they are good Christians. He has his backpack ready to go with them and see what they do on the field.

No problem. Any suggestions instead of dutybound?
In medieval games I actually like a little bit of racism since imo increases the believability of the setting. But since I oppose it actively in real life and am well aware of the sensitivity of the topic I have no problem downplaying it.