New item (fire imp Notebook)

Salve sodalis,

Here i present a device used in my rpg's back in the 90's by one of my chars.

It was a pre-ars-magica era for me so i dont know pretty well how to hermetice.

The item was a book that had a conection with the mage library, so he can read every book in his library from wherever he want. So he could travel with just one "precious" book. Well was funny to see him take almost half an hour to find a particular book seeming to pass throug infinite pages.

The only things i have clear is that is ReIm with maybe some requisites and a very nice arcane conection.

Some aportations?

You need to look in Covenants :slight_smile:
For the connection with the mage library, Covenants, p. 98, the Catalog as a proxy, details how to arrange an AC to every book in a library.
You might need to upgrade the catalog every once in a while, but that's only a single pawn of Vim Vis.

Then turn to page 101, where you will find the Endless Repetition in a Bottomless Pool. I think that should do the rest of it, though that spell is usually enchanted into a mirror.

InIm 1: Use one sense at a distance
Range: AC +4
Duration: Concentration +1
Target: Room +2
Item keep concentration +5*

Makes a 25+ magical object, maybe one or two magnitudes more if it is a big library or for the complex effect.
Should be very much possible.

The bit in Covenants about the Catalog doesn't actually make much sense though. I can't think of any other examples of arcane connections to multiple and mutable (books come and go) collections of items and the ritual that creates the connection doesn't have TeFo or level and doesn't seem to be learned according to the normal rules. I wouldn't want to say that a list can become an AC to everything listed therein, in general. It looks like these legacy rules that are probably best forgotten, IMO.

Anyway, it doesn't seem necessary. With an arcane connection to the Library chambers one should be able to use Im magic to "zoom" around and read books in the shelves without individual ACs to the tomes themselves.

I don't think it would be quite that simple. Given that you have an Arcane Connection to the covenant's library, that shouldn't allow you to automatically read a closed book. You would, first, have to cast Opening the Intangible Tunnel...or a modification with, say, Sun duration. Then, cast an Intellego Imaginem through the tunnel to browse through the stacks to find the book you're looking for. Then a Rego Animal/Herbam/Corpus (whatever the book's made of) to move the book to a lectern or table. Then either another (probably Sun-duration) Rego Whatever to turn the pages, or a new Rego Whatever every time you want to turn the page. Oh, and hope nobody does any tidying up and puts the book away. (Best way to handle that is to simply tell the librarian that, if she sees a book unattended, to watch it for a few minutes, and if the pages turn by themselves, leave it alone.)

And that's not even taking into the account the warping and the potential for abuse that Endless Repetition in a Bottomless Pool brings to the table.

I don't think it would be that hard. "Summoning the Distant Image" (InIm 25) lets you use vision at Arcane range. "Prying Eyes" (InIm 5) lets you see through walls and by analogy book covers. I'd say that adding 2-3 magnitudes to the InIm 25 spell would let you shift your perspective around the room and do the closed book trick. It comes out fairly high level, but doable. There's no need for an Intangible Tunnel since you're not going to cast any spells through the link to the library.

I'm not sure how light works exactly in ME, but isn't a closed book like a dark room, and therefore needs some light?
The additional consideration that needs to be taken into account with Eternal Repitition is that it could become possible for two magi to learn from the same source at the same time.

I don't know Endless Repetition in a Bottomless Pool seems to allow seeing into closed books. A Target:Room spell along the same lines should reasonably be able to read every book in a room. Of course it would also be reasonable to up the intricacy guideline. That could easily push such a spell into the level of ritual territory even if you didn't just declare it a ritual anyway. If the spell is a ritual because of high magnitude it could still be put in an enchanted device. If it's so powerful it has to be a ritual no matter what the Mag then it's fair to say that it can't be put in an enchanted device.

Of course your right warping could be applied as a big limit on the spell. Also any read at a distance spell is unlikely to carry the resonant material bonus present in truly high quality hermetic texts. So that might be another limitation.

The Catalogs do seem to be a special case, but it's not totally foreign to Hermetic Magic. The ritual is described as an ancestor of the Ritual that fixes Arcane connections which also doesn't have a TeFo. It's highly likely that it is the product of some Integration or Original Research.

Their are also some pretty strict limitations on it. Books don't seem to come and go from the catalog freely. You have to redo the process every time a new catalog is written and only the newest catalog is valid.

I got a similar object in my previous post that is up for moderation...

Basically, Just use a telepathy spell to the librarian asking for the right book to be deposited on the enchanted reading pedestal. The pedestal has an arcane connection to your book with an effect of ReIm to send it's pages to your book. The effect is not that high...


InIm 3 is the guideline for seeing in the dark (AM5 pg. 145).

Ok without thinking on a T:room or a circle why not just an ReIm lvl35 just alike the "leap of homecoming". You have an arcane conection to every single book you have ( yes a lot of work fixing arcane conections) but you have the prerception as if you were there. Well the only problem is that while you were using that book noone else coul percieve it thus it's image will be with you.

Not entering on ritual levels, warping or whatever, 2 spells (1ReIm, 1ReVi substain demanding spell) on the device and 1 imp to mantain conc.

Just fill the device with AC.

Or if you have a "tiquismiquis" (tickler) SG just ReAn/He/Te (depend on the book) and import the very book, and is sended back when close the covers.

I was away from my books, but even that guideline doesn't really say to me, see in absolute darkness such as an interior room with no added light source. Presume that since it's InIm, you're converting something into visible species, I have a hard time seeing how that works in the case of a book. Perhaps I have too modern an understanding of what's possible with night vision. But that's kind of beside the point as I was suggesting many possible problems that the spells overwork.
As I've said,Eternal Repetition in a Bottomless Pool is really problematic. It opens the door from two or more people learning from the same book at one time (that really breaks things). I consider that a huge problem. How does that get resolved in the saga? Secondly, the spell should warp the book it is reading. It's a 35th level spell. 1 warping point a day, a season has 91 days in it, a magus takes 13 days off from study in a season, which leaves 78 days. At the end of the first season this spell is used on a book, it should have a warping score of 5, gaining two minor flaws, and a minor virtue exemplary of the spell and or the locations involved... The warping inflicted could be mitigated by changing the duration to Moon, instead of Sun, reducing the castings to a handful from over 75...

The 2 of us hve had that discussion before, and I'll say now what I've said before:
That's an awfully weak plot hook, and goes completely away if you have a semi-decent library.

Warping I'll grant you is a problem, except technically the book could be argued not to be the target.

Still, I'm beginning to think ERiaBP might need a redesigning.

I just had a brain wave...
We know we can use MuAn to "overwrite" the text in a book. See The Transformed Folio HoH: TL.
Boosted and Harnessed are not important, and our effect will not be a ritual, because we will be much more moderate about duration.

something like...
This Folio Transformed
MuAn 30
Base 1, R: Personal (enchanted book affects itself), D: Sun (+2), T: Group (+2), Intricacy (+5)

The above effect is triggered off the following effect
The Distant Folio Sensed
InAn 25
(Base 5, R: Arcane (+4) D: Mom, T: Ind)

How do I get this?
Twinning the Tome (HoH: TL, p. 101-102)
This has an Intelligo requisite, so we know that the InAn effect to sense the patterns of the Ink of the Animal Product can be no higher than base 5, because then that should have been the base of Twinnng the Tome.
We only need to sense it momentarily, because in that moment, the text in our local book transforms to the text of the distant book, for the duration of the above effect (Sun).

Likewise, light is not a parameter, because we're not trying to read the text directly, we're asking the animal product about one of it's properties.
The base for the second effect might be lower, I'm not sure though.

Obviously this has to be an invested device, but that's sometimes how it has to be...

ReAn to summon the relevant books is ofcourse a solution.

I don't consider it a plot hook. I consider it a reasonable extension of the rule that a teacher cannot teach Hermetic Arts (and spells) to more than one person at a time. If a person can't do it, why can a book do it? Yes, it can easily be overcome if the resources of the covenant are devoted to making a copy of the book. It's a logistical limitation, nothing more.

The target whether big T or little T isn't the issue, the issue is whether the book can be said to be under a mystical effect. In the interests of full disclosure, I don't impose warping on small 'T' targets hit with The Incantation of Lightening or Ball of Abysmal Flame, because the damage is enough, IMO.
I think the possibility of warped books from these effects is really interesting...and it could explain why, as is mentioned in the Books, Egos, etc. thread, there might not be as many books available as people believe their should be.

I wanted to clarify that I'm pretty lenient with logistics problems within a covenant, and even allow magi to revise characters actions taken in previous seasons, if they realize they need something early on in a story. The point I'm trying to make is that every choice has a consequence, and some choices are less bad than others. Players who alter their characters on the fly to serve the needs of the story are putting their long-term goals on hold, and that's good for stories. A character who invents and uses this spell, is fine with me, as long as it's understood that there is a consequence for the spell, and the limitation of two people learning from the same specific book/person at the same time isn't possible. Warping a book isn't bad, either, I'd just consider changing the D: to moon to reduce warping to a more manageable level, and the first time it gets used at D:Moon to study a book for a season, you're only putting 3 warping points on for the casting, and 1 for the season it was under a "high" power mystical effect, for a total of 4 warping points, 4.25 if you want to go fractional to retain the +1/year warping point for Constant Effect, High Power effects from the tabel on page 168 of the core book.

The guideline seems pretty clear to me. Admittedly, the corebook was written before "species" was added to the game but I always give precedence to the core rules.

I don't have much to add to the discussion on this, but it wouldn't be a problem for me. I can't think of anything magical or otherwise special about books, except possibly the resonance rules from Covenants, which we tend to ignore.

Technically, the target of an Im spell is the image (of the book in this case). I wouldn't warp the book itself (Hr or An). Would you apply warping to someone who's observed by a scrying spell? I wouldn't.


What if we combine, open intangible tunel with, substain demanding spell to reduce the spell lvl and therefore avoid warpping?

I'm not sure why this isn't a problem for people other than me. As I said, it's a logistical problem, and it can be solved, PC negotiation, such as a council decision to make another copy in advance of the season that's going to be the conflict, or one PC agreeing to do something else, in exchange for a favor later on. Beyond that PC interaction possibility, the idea that two people learning from the same (Hermetic) book at the same time is one of those things that breaks how we understand the Order and how Hermetic magic works. If two people can learn from a book at the same time, the question needs to be asked, why hasn't this happened before? Why aren't Art scores across the board so much higher than they are? Why isn't everyone given a set of these mirrors at the beginning of their apprenticeship or at gauntlet, or working really hard to make such a set of mirrors for themselves? The implications of the spell not warping books, are IMO worse than the implications of the spell warping books, and breaks a lot of our understanding of what happened in the Order heretofore.

Sure, Peering into the Mortal Mind, and other spells of 6th magnitude or greater should warp the target, it's RAW. It's a scrying spell, too. Unless of course you've designed the spell for the "recipient." Again, this is problematic, and I find warping rules to be unwieldy, to be honest, and the point where I don't inflict warping is, in many cases a bit moot; I dislike the idea of giving a warping point to someone who is the recipient of a BoAF of IoL, simply because the damage is probably enough, and if they manage to survive because of a good soak roll or a botched damage roll. I also don't warp people things who are transported by Hermes or Mercere Portal, but I will have a tendency to consider these spells as warping the areas where they exist, over time.

So, I am hypocritical when it comes to matters of warping, I admit that. My objections to this spell/device stem from the point of view that it really breaks my understanding of what the Order would look like if this spell were either common or frequently cast without imposing warping. The idea of more than 1 person reading from a Hermetic book being possible is interesting, I don't discount that. However it should change certainly change the order as it exists. My preference for a player that really wants this is to pursue this as some sort of research project, because it will fundamentally change the Order, and create, for the first time, the possibility of Hermetic schools existing. Give a teacher Parma 5, a set of mirrors and she can "teach" Hermetic arts to 5 apprentices in a season.

Taking your objection, that it's an Im target affecting the species, fine, the species emanating from the book are warped, it's probably a distinction without a difference though.