New spell: Invisibility against the weak willed

Invisibility against the weak willed

CrVi(Im) 5
R: Per, D: Sun, T: Individual
This spell imbues all of the species you emit with the taint of magic. Your species so modified are affected by magic resistance. This has the effect of making you invisible to those that would resist you while being visible to everybody else.

Taj of Flambeau used this spell when dueling with foes that were stronger than him as it always amused him to see the fear in their face when their Parma reacted
(Base: 3 (Affect all species emitted by the individual), R: Per +0, D: Sun +2, T: Individual, Rq Im free)
Contributor: William

Let me start by saying that the level of the spell seems low ... than again, it only works vs targets that have MR

W

Neither the base or the effect seem coherent with each other.

I'm using the CrVi base 3 to taint the species emitted by the target ...

The spell might need to be MuIm(Vi) to change the species the target emits into magical ones for the duration of the spell order to make the target invisible to someone that resists he effect.

W

I do not see the incoherency. I would think that the MuIm(Vi) version works better as well :slight_smile:

However, I am not so sure that you can taint species. This part of the canon has always been fuzzy to me. If you can taint them, the spell would be perfectly kosher.

PeIm20 Veil of Invisibility has an extra magnitude for "changing image", I think this should apply here also. Even though this results in a level 10, you'd be hard pressed to explain why it should be lower than level 20. Moreover, if it was possible everyone would know it and its countermeasure. When theory does not match reality, theory is wrong.

Nice reverse pink dot effect, BTW.

I might be tempted to use the bits written in the Perdo Imaginem guidelines on this spell. Notably the bits about affecting 'moving images needing an extra magnitude' and that visual senses needs a base of 4 instead of the creo and muto guidelines that any one sense is level 1.

I know that isn't RAW, but the ST can change anything he/she likes and this is a way of making visual disguise type spells equal to basic invisibility. Eg 'Image of Grass' Level 5, (Base 1, +1 size, +2 Sun, +1 Rego Req) Makes the area I'm standing in look like uninhabited grassland. Bigger size, to avoid showing my shadow and to hide nearby friends, Rego req to change the grass to match the area I'm in. Other spells, or higher magnitudes to do the same for other habitats/locations. Compare with Veil of Invisibility Level 20 (to match it needs to be changed to be personal, -1, and +1 to remove the shadow).

However, you might also need a much bigger range/area of affect/Target. Would 'Individual' be one specie? Rather than all the species you emit? (I do see that the description for a base individual for imaginem is 'one human' or equivalent, but you emit a lot of species, all the time, and you want all of those to be magical not just the ones you emitted at the start of the spell) And you aren't targetting yourself (you aren't turning magical, the species you emit are), so it can't be personal either. And you want your species to still be magical when they reach your enemy, not to stop being magical when they have left your 'personal space', so you'd want at least 'voice' range.

So, you can rule that this spell is very high level, if you choose. Or you need an alternative reason for almost no magi using it. Sight of Active Magics or similar, which I would want up whenever I'm in a magical fight anyway, would counter it, but I wouldn't want it used by magi in my saga all the time so I'd make it higher level. How high is up to you.

Gilarius

But it isnt trying to affect an image at all...

Yeah.

Free? No way. Im unsure if this should affect ALL species or just one sort. It´s also a somewhat troublesome in Target as its constantly affecting the species produced by it, but its targeting the individual?

Possibly it should be MuIm(Vi) base 5 instead...

In short, i see lots of questionmarks, and i very much doubt its set level, but i dont think its an impossible spell in the end...

Pink dot effect :slight_smile: I hope we do not need to go as in depth into the discussion ...

I'm also unclear as to how to manage spells that need to be "re-casted" every round such as MuAq Lungs of the Fish in order to be effective.

I'll give out my secret plan which is if we can find common grounds as to how this "basic" spell looks like, we can attach comprehensive "Aura" like spell to it by giving species the ability to : shed a sense of Nobility, Awe, Burning fire, etc.

W

I am on the side of MuIm(Vi), or perhaps Mu(Cr)Im(Vi), mostly because Imaginem will work better for dealing with the species. I don't have a problem with the basic CrVi idea, but CrVi isn't at all set up for dealing with this type situation, which makes it quite difficult to figure out. I could even imagine determining the level via MuIm and then just making the CrVi spell that level.

However, this won't fully hide you from those with magic resistance. They will be notified of your presence via a ping off their Parma Magica. I'm not sure how many people play with the same ping for magic resistance from Magic Might, but the problem certainly exists for Parma Magica.

Chris

Magi get ping dots. The hulking ogre that guards the entrance to the cave and that you cannot/do not want to kill, does not :slight_smile:

This just made me think of a supernatural monster that guards a covenant's entrance unawares that he is doing so. Nice. MUst remember to use that for a NPC or something

Cheers,
Xavi

Well, in fact, normally, every magic resistance imply the "ping" effect as it's stated in the rules.

And it wont just be ping, it´s going to be a constant ping,ping,ping,ping,ping,ping,ping,ping,ping etc etc...

Alright

Adding to the confusion. What do you think about this avenue?

Invisibility against the weak willed

CrIm (In) 25
R: Per, D: Sun, T: Individual
This spell recreates the species the caster usually emits. Your species so created are affected by magic resistance. This has the effect of keeping you invisible to those that would resist you while being visible to everybody else. In the case of when faced with Parma, the magus has the choice of letting the species through in which case he simply sees the caster or resist them in which case he does not (assuming that the caster is under an invisibility spell)

Taj of Flambeau used this spell when dueling with foes that were stronger than him as it always amused him to see the fear in their face when their Parma reacted
(Base: 5 (Creates magical replicas of the species emitted by the caster), R: Per +0, D: Sun +2, T: Individual, In Rq. +1, +1 Moving target)
Contributor: William

I don't think CrIm is appropriate. Wouldn't that create new species with magic in them. Even if those species were blocked your normal ones would get through. CrVi makes sense, but the CrVi guidelines have trouble dealing with the species. Also, some might rule that the CrVi part will be suppressed, letting the normal species through, which isn't what you want. MuIm(Vi) should allow for what you want. Look at your own wording: "recreates." Recreating is basically creating anew, or changing something into a new thing, or using Muto.

Chris

MuIm or even MuIm(Vi) makes more sense

Even Mu(Cr)Im(Vi)

Count me as thinking it should be MuIm T: group, R: touch as you are affecting the species themselves rather than your image (a quality of yourself) that generates them. Any Muto effect on the species makes them magical and thus resistible. Those without MR will see and hear you with sigil based SFX while those with MR will get constant non-directional ping but be unable to see you.

I think this spell is a good example of why Parma Magica should strip magic but let the rest pass.

Invisibility against the weak willed (vs cannon Parma)

MuIm (Vi) 15
R: Per, D: Sun, T: Individual
This spell imbues all of the species you emit with the taint of magic. Your species so modified are affected by magic resistance. This has the effect of making you invisible to those that would resist you while being visible to everybody else.

Taj of Flambeau used this spell when dueling with a marched Magus that was stronger than him as it always amused him to see the fear in their face when their Parma got hit by this spell
(Base: 5 (Affect all species emitted by the individual), R: Per +0, D: Sun +2, T: Individual, Rq Vim free)
Contributor: William

Invisibility against the weak willed (using "mundane gets through" type of Parma)

CrIm (In) 25
R: Per, D: Sun, T: Individual
This spell recreates the species the caster usually emits. Your species so created are affected by magic resistance. Combined with a conventional invisibility spell, this spell has the effect of keeping you invisible to those that would resist you while being visible to everybody else. In the case of when faced with Parma, the magus has the choice of letting the species through in which case he simply sees the caster or resist them in which case he does not (assuming that the caster is under an invisibility spell)

Taj of Flambeau used this spell when dueling with foes that were stronger than him as it always amused him to see the fear in their face when their Parma reacted
(Base: 5 (Creates magical replicas of the species emitted by the caster), R: Per +0, D: Sun +2, T: Individual, In Rq. +1, +1 Moving target)
Contributor: William