new spell(skunk stench!)

creo arum15(animal)
effect-a fairly small cloud of stench,like the spray of a skunk.
tell me what you think of this spell & how it might be used in a adventure.

I reckon it is anachronistic as skunks were not known in Europe in the middle ages.

Duration Sun but is it affected by wind so it will move or is it intended that it should stay put?

The spell is called stench of 20 corpses.

you can do it cheaper with Imaginum but ( IIRC) it will not get hidden targets.

will stay with the person hit

Assuming you're keen on doing this with an Auram spell instead of Imaginem ... would it really be Creo? Are we making the air better by making it stink to high heaven? Maybe it should be Perdo....

If it is Auram it is basically Lvl 10 Stench of 20 corpses(AM5 pg 125). If he wants to imitate a skunk spraying musk on a target ( which could also be a weasel as they are the same family) then he should do CrAn base 5 to create an animal product.

your right this might work better.

(Whassup, Abe! Long time no hear!)

The Form of Aurum does include "odors", but if you want it to "stick" to the target, then "an animal product" sounds like the better path to pursue.

If using CrAu, the odor would be created (as an "air effect") and then disperse normally, and have no reason to follow a person around.

A MuIm, to change that person's "smell" to something else would work too - but I doubt that "smell" would be any stronger than normal (just "different"), so you'd have to find a very smelly person to begin with or the effect would be as subtle as they were to begin with.

you can imitate the effect of So20C with CrIm at level 4 (Base 1 +2 Voice +1 Diameter) so I'm guessing that you could use the same thing to create a smell that says with a target all day.

First, you don't have to quote someone when posting directly after them - and certainly not the whole thing when you're only responding to one little part.

Second, I have no idea what So20C is in plain English, and am not inclined to look it up atm.

(Third, I worry that it's not medieval to begin with - but that's irrelevant.)

Lastly, and most relevantly - not according to the rules, not even a little. Moving thru a magical Imagonem effect is not the same as moving thru a natural effect or even a magical Aurum effect. Aurum effects will "disperse naturally" - but not imagonem, which is all about perception and false images rather than anything "solid" enough to cling to someone.

What sort of items would you fine people put this spell into?

In a hall leading to the Covenant Library - as a deterrent.

Does it matter?

Couple of post up he wrote out the spell Stench of Twenty Corpses.

If you make a spell that Cr/Im creates the species of stench of a musk producing animal and caste the spell at a target Individual, then as long as the spell's Duration last, why would the species affecting the sense of smell not continue to be produced?

It seems to me that Imaginem would make a smell that would be indiscernible from a true species of scent.

Of course - you're wasting valuable pixels. :wink:

It's a stylistic thing - you quote only what you need to, the minimum for what you're referring to, not "everything". It's like WRITING IN ALL CAPS or spkg n l33t al d tym. Communication still happens (more or less), but it's annoying.

Since you asked. 8)

Ah.... I was trying to figure out "Sulfur ... Bi-Oxide Carbon..." whatever. That makes much more scents, thx.

Well, because it's not an Animal spell. The mage is not producing the thing, they're producing the perception of the thing - and the "perception" doesn't cling to clothing and travel the way that an animal product does. Not any more than the a CrIm of blood would stain clothing after a grog leaves an illusory combat.


I often try to stay away from Imag magic because I get it wrong about 75% of the time. In my mind I would think that if you cast a "smell spell" on a person, then the spell would continue to produce the smell. Or species of scent rather. But then I stop and think that only the target of the spell would be the one to smell the species. Which is wrong, but I tend to convince myself into odd little corners.

So if a magus Cr/Im a scent, then it would probably have to be Conc if he wishes the smell to travel with the person he is targeting. Unless there is a way around this....

Of course I give me a minute or two and I will have convinced myself of some other nonsense. :wink:

(This is how I think of it. If I'm in a minority, I'm sure someone will point it out with great glee.)

I know what you mean. A big part of the problem is often because we translate "imagonem" as "illusion". This is a mistake - it's "an image", not an illusion. In genre (i.e. in magic literature/film/etc.), there are roughly 3 types of "illusions", and two are completely misleading models for Creo Imagonem.

One is all in the mind, a hallucination, purely internal and personal - AM imagonem is not that. CrIm spells never target "the mind" or a person. (These are the type that typically "don't affect undead or unthinking creatures".) That's all Mentem.

There is also the type of illusion where something is there, but it is disguised or glamoured. CrIm is not that either (necessarily) - you can drop a CrIm on top of something else, but CrIm effects do not rely on any "other thing" to take effect. (MuIm works this way - not CrIm.)

The third is to create "an image" of a thing that is simply not present or real, and let any thinking beings (who are nearby and able to sense it) to perceive and interpret that image. This is how AM CrIm works.

The classic is the visual mirage, that, for instance, might create "an image" of an oasis for the eyes, which perceive that image as water and palm trees/etc. There is nothing there, yet it is sensed - but what is "it"? "It" is the radiating image of an oasis, literally as if a false stream of external data was being fed to the eyes of anyone/anything looking.

But it's parallel if it affects a different sense. There is nothing making noise, but there is the stimulus that makes us perceive noise. There is nothing to taste, only the (magically created) stimulus that makes us taste something. Nothing stinks, but the triggers that make us smell "stink" radiate out from the magic.

These base effects create "an Individual amount" of species (approx equal to a grown human). For sound/smell/taste, what is the diff between "species" and the real thing? It's the diff between flickering firelight and real fire. It's the diff between feeling heat and actually being burnt. It's the diff between smelling something and that "something" actually being there to make a smell.

Species are particles that radiate from any object, that carry "the image" out and away from that object and trigger perception when they hit a sense organ. The easiest way to think of "species" is, essentially, like light radiating out from something glowing, only diff appropriate to any sense. Species is the stuff that triggers the perception, carrying "the image" from the object that is creating the species to the viewer/listener/smeller/taster/senser. But with CrIm, the "thing" is not there - just the stuff triggering the perception of it, radiating out from the magic. So the species have nothing concrete or substantial behind them - thus the "illusory" aspect. The species are just as real, but the thing that one would expect to find sending them is missing.

Here is a below average diagram of non-magical species & source:

Something stinky --> i species [/i]--> Nose -> Perception of "something stinky"
With our modern understanding, we know that molecules of the "something stinky" get into our clothing, and we carry them around, and they release more molecules, and that's what we smell. But with the model that "species" are what are released, once the magic is gone there is no thing in the clothing to send that signal - species by themselves don't create the thing to trigger more species (refer to diagram above).

So, just as an illusion of a sword does not cut (there is nothing solid), and the illusion of blood does not stain (it's only an image), the illusion of a smell does not "permeate" clothing/etc - it's only the perception of the smell carried to the senser, as if the thing creating the stench was there - but there is nothing to cause the stench, only the magically generated species triggering the perception. And, like a visual illusion - there is nothing "there" besides that perceived image.

The smell is not carried because the thing that sends the trigger is no longer present. It's exactly like trying to carry light into a dark cave.

Or that's how I understand it. Does that help at all, or is it clear as illusory mud?

Actually, if all that gibberish above is correct, I think it would have to have Rego.

If it were MuIm, and the person's smell was changed, then it would be all "on them", in every sense. But to create species magically, those just radiate out from where they were created unless Rego'd to move somewhere else.

Rego could move the smell away from the source {ReIm} or keep the magical source close on the person {Cr(Re)Im}.

I think MuIm5 Taste of the Spices and Herbs would be the best base to match Stench of the Twenty Corpses. There doesn't seem to need extra magnitude for extreme odors, but I think I would use a few.

This is totally correct. The same way that Cuchulainshound pointed out that Im does not disperse like a Au spell would. They are the same effect with three different methods of getting there. The mage needs to ask what he wants. If it is to spray musk on a person to produce the effect then it is CrAn (base 5). If it is just a smell in a room then it is CrAu but the same effect could also be done with CrIm as we are just talking about a scent with the CrAu. The CrAn will travel with the person sprayed with no other changes. The others would be more difficult.

I think it is better to go with the Glamor(sp?) mystery for a Im specialist. Imagonem spells can be hard and expensive. I spent some time making an imagonem specialist and the single sense spells turned out to be very useful. Just effecting one or two senses can work well.