new virtue prodigy

child prodigy
effect-you are a child prodigy in that you have passed your gauntlit after only 3-12 years as a aprentice(you have the standard point of a normal apprentice)
tell me what you think of this virtue & what other effects you think it should have.

Actually, not a bad virtue, Abe. All it does is save a magus a few years of aging, compressing the apprenticeship down and getting them out in the world a bit earlier.

I wouldn't allow "3-12" years, but, say, make it a flat -3 years saved. Maybe allow it to be taken twice, with the second saving -2 years? Dunno, have to think about the fallout of a mage Gauntleting that fast/young.

Shouldn't do anything else, except perhaps a ~level 2 reputation re the feat.

Background-/Story-wise, no real reason it shouldn't be within the realm of the possible.

thanks for the postive feedback!

Interesting idea.

I would suggest making it somewhat like the various virtues granting extra experience, adding 50 experience points to the standard 240 from the apprenticeship.

And then including the option of letting you "buy off" years in apprenticeship at a rate of 15 per year (setting this at maximum 3 years).

A couple virtues I made a while back, can't remember if I posted them here or not.

This was primarily for a game with players that were concerned about their characters being 'old' too fast, so I gave them a chance to have a few extra years. :stuck_out_tongue: But it does match the topic here, even with the name of the second virtue.

Minor Hermetic Virtue: Rapidly Trained
A sort of reverse of the ‘skilled parens’ virtue, instead of spending fifteen years as usual and training a better-than-average apprentice, the parens trained the apprentice to an adequate level in a mere twelve years. The usual amount of XP and spell levels are still given for apprenticeship (perhaps modified by skilled parens or weak parens to represent the strength of the training) but it only takes twelve years for the apprentice to gauntlet and become a magus.

Major Hermetic Virtue: Magical Prodigy
On rare occasions, apprentices are taken that turn out to have an incredible knack for magic. These apprentices can, with the help of their parentes, complete their apprentice’s gauntlet adequately and become a full magus after a mere six years of training, gaining the full normal amount of XP for apprenticeship. Much like Mythic Blood, this virtue also comes with a free Minor Magical Focus, and a Minor Personality Flaw to balance it.

Cheers for sharing - quite interesting virtues.

Actually, a STRICT hermetic training is 15 seasons long, not 15 years. As such, if you have enough resources AND previous knowledge of non-hermetic stuff you can probably finish your training in 5-6 years or so (in order to acquire some spells and Arts ratings).

That is not exceptional. Any magus can do that given that sort of extra-intensive training. There is even the canon case of the last apprentice of Bonisagus himself finishing his trainig too fast and ending up with the power of a full magus when he was on his teens. Obviously, having a tteenager with that sort of problem was BAD. After all, being a teen is an illness we all have to pass in one moment of our lives.

Bonisagus had to march him because he was acting like a dick.

More than a virtue I thinkit would make for an interesting character concept AND a flaw (being looked suspiciously by his peers during the first years of his hermetic life probably along with some mental flaw like low self steem, bipolarity or being moonie)

Just some thoughts on this. I fail to see a nuke-armed teenager as a genius. More of a danger to the universe.

Cheers,

Xavi

Somewhat of a modern conceptual imposition on the paradigm then both by the canon writers and yourself, Xavi. :wink:

In the 13th Century the notion of teenager or even adolescent would not have existed. Children were regarded (and in many demographics, formally initiated) as adults once they reached puberty (12-14 years). Many girls and boys would have been married legally without parental consent by this time.

I think the creature we understand today as the unruly teenager is only made possible by our smugly overcomfortable modern lifestyles and the artificial concept of adolescence of the past century or so.

True. Sometimes I forget about that. Weird, since we just had an adventure (designed by me) about the events happening to our mundane meddler magus escorting the daughter of the local noble to be marred.... she being 10.

However, the marching of Bonisagu's apprentice was an old (2nd?) edition event already, IIRC. It was developed in GTOF, but it was there somewhere, I think. And right now it is still quasi-canon and IMO sensible: being trained too fast in too much power is not a good disciplinarian mechanism. Happens with a lot of stuff in real life, actually.

Cheers,

Xavi

Any adventure ideas that come to mind based upon this virtue?

bump

Now i read,

IMT we hab been talking long and wide about that.
Lets roleplay a bit: unless you are a bonissagus why on earth whould you want to finish an aprentice in 6-9-12 years...

You have. A magical gifted lab assistant/slave for 15 years FREE!!! You can kill a assistant if you want is your property! Is a thing! A pet, a piece of furniture with your name on it. Ending you take aprentices to be more powerfull and free. So that virtues should be only suitable for bonissagi ( earn points by number of aprentices) or in necesary conditions...

Schism war: i need those hoplites for yesterday- you, you and you teach those bastards or burn them to ashes!

:laughing:

As background flavor for my magus, a Tytalus, I had the master's former apprentice be a genius perfect student and the master was attempting to thwart the House of Tytalus by not teaching the boy Asterpatos according to the insanely brutal Tytalus way. So this child prodigy excelled and was brilliant like none other, and the master bragged and bragged. Well this boy was slowly manipulated by a unknown Tytalus, a magus that did not like his filia departing from the code of Tytalus, and so the master's own master and beloved rival, decided to destroy the apprentice.

Long story short, too late, a child indulged and given the powers of a magus at a very very young age is truly a frightening thought. A youth is easily manipulated by a 120 year old master of intrigue and sorcery, and there is nothing like using untraceable mundane means to turn an apprentice into a dagger in the heart of a master.


This aside, I like the idea of the minor and Major Virtue, with the Major virtue coming with a minor personality flaw.

The minor virtue with the apprentice ending within say 3 years of the 15... remember Theban turns out students in 14 years no problem. The Major virtue could give you a trained mage in say 8 or 9 years, but with the draw-back of the personality trait signifying some unhinging of the supple mind. Perhaps over-confidence, arrogance, paranoia, ect.

Of course this originally was posted long before Apprentices.... :laughing:


Trying to remember... are you truly allowed to kill them without repercussions? I know technically you might be able to have one die without there being a issue, but if you actually murder one, wouldn't your Tribunal get a bit pissed? Definitely within the Theban tribunal you would suffer a public reproaching, a issuing of one or more shards, and possibly a forced removal of politi status and been told to leave the Tribunal.

I understand the context of what you are saying, but something in there struck me as worth talking about. How are apprentices treated in different Tribunals. Thread done:
https://forum.atlas-games.com/t/apprentice-rights/7723/1

:laughing:

As background flavor for my magus, a Tytalus, I had the master's former apprentice be a genius perfect student and the master was attempting to thwart the House of Tytalus by not teaching the boy Asterpatos according to the insanely brutal Tytalus way. So this child prodigy excelled and was brilliant like none other, and the master bragged and bragged. Well this boy was slowly manipulated by a unknown Tytalus, a magus that did not like his filia departing from the code of Tytalus, and so the master's own master and beloved rival, decided to destroy the apprentice.

Long story short, too late, a child indulged and given the powers of a magus at a very very young age is truly a frightening thought. A youth is easily manipulated by a 120 year old master of intrigue and sorcery, and there is nothing like using untraceable mundane means to turn an apprentice into a dagger in the heart of a master. So my character's master eventually murdered his first apprentice, leaving the corpse to rot, and then refused to ever train an apprentice by such kind and gentle means. Yeah that meant my character got 15 years of such ruthless training even some Tytalus thought it was excessive.


This aside, I like the idea of the minor and Major Virtue, with the Major virtue coming with a minor personality flaw.

The minor virtue with the apprentice ending within say 3 years of the 15... remember Theban turns out students in 14 years no problem. The Major virtue could give you a trained mage in say 8 or 9 years, but with the draw-back of the personality trait signifying some unhinging of the supple mind. Perhaps over-confidence, arrogance, paranoia, ect.

Of course this originally was posted long before Apprentices.... :laughing:

Trying to remember... are you truly allowed to kill them without repercussions? I know technically you might be able to have one die without there being a issue, but if you actually murder one, wouldn't your Tribunal get a bit pissed? Definitely within the Theban tribunal you would suffer a public reproaching, a issuing of one or more shards, and possibly a forced removal of politi status and been told to leave the Tribunal.

I understand the context of what you are saying, but something in there struck me as worth talking about. How are apprentices treated in different Tribunals. Thread done:
https://forum.atlas-games.com/t/apprentice-rights/7723/1

Skilled Parens and Gild Trained give you 90 xp, the same you'd get in 3 years. I'd say passing your Gauntlet 3 years younger is a Minor Virtue.

I can kinda see a lil scheming Tytalus beat his parens early, but nothing else comes to mind.

Figure out how to perform Parma magica, probably through a lab accident that sends you into short term (one round?) temporary twilight and "clicks" in your efforts of copying your master when he performs it. Mybe you got your rite wqhen you were 10 years old: "get this key and you will be free.... err... a magus". The key is inside a magical steel furnace, for example, and immune to rego magics (and the furnace cannot be affected by magic either

Cheers,
Xavi

Yes, you really are. Thebes tribunal actually cares a lot about apprentices and give them an unusual amount of rights.
But this is over and beyond the demands of the code.

the rhine only demands that you should be a master to take an apprentice - meaning that the effective level of minimum competence is somewhat higher. but that's about it.

There may be social limiters - and there often are. but legally, apprentice rights are few.

any new thoughts on virtues that can build on this one?

Actually, there's 1 law that can be called in. Not necessarily intended to protect apprentices, but it can be called in if someone takes issue with you doing so.

Endangering the Order.

Killing potential members just on a whim is endangering the order, and thus, a crime.