Non-Hermetic Items

It looks to me like there are few who can make things akin to enchanted items, but I'd like to document what options there are. It can be from any Realm.

There's the obvious precursor to Hermetic enchantment, Touched by (Realm), for craftspeople. (One of my favorite Virtues ever, incidentally.)

I know that demons and diabolists can do some limited item enhancement, though I'm not sure they can do any permanent enchantment-like things... I mean sure, they can harden a weapon to increase it's damage for a period, but I don't think the Forsaken duration can work on inanimate objects. And their "store effect in item" stipulates the item breaking to get the effect. So... Hm.

For the Divine, same problem as Infernal. They can empower an item to provide boosts or carry some interesting effects, but you have to get really high-level to do much interesting with it, and of course the problem of an object with no moral agency being unable to have a Grace duration comes up (though maybe a Relic...).

Faeries are more flexible... To a degree. Glamour interacts in weird and amazing ways with everything. In particular, Faeries tend to ensure that if their role is "killed," the object they reside in remains valuable so it isn't destroyed or such. Still not entirely sure how stories involving getting enchanted items from Faeries work. Something about "pressing a little of their glamour into the item" or similar... Serf's Parma.

Soqotrans can make enchanted item equivalents by casting Perpetual-duration spells on things, while Learned Magicians basically do enchant stuff, but (perhaps because they don't use vis) their enchantments lack permanence.

I also vaguely remember something about artists having their own specific version of Touched by (Realm) that works quite differently.

What other options exist for non-Hermetic supernatural items?

IIRC, Infernalists can bind demons into items, for some degree of effect.
Noble's Parma though.

I would say the primary makers of non-Hermetic items would be Rune users. (I have no idea how to spell their formal name......). They make permanent items all the time, don't need Vis to do it (Serf's parma). Pretty cool stuff. Shame about all the Warping......

Well, depending on what you consider an enchanted item, here's a list.

Ancient Magic: Mechanica of Heron. Quite a versatile ability for making magic items.

Some Vitkir rune-spells affect items, so that creates a sort of magic item.

Sahirs have two options. One is binding spirits into items. The other is creating alchemically-enhanced items - just about anything you can do with Experimental Philosophy you can do much quicker and more easily through Solomonic Alchemy (for example, enhancing the steel of a sword). This has the advantage of being a natural transformation and unaffected by Parma.

Experimental Philosophy and Mythic Alchemy make magic items, albeit very time-inefficiently.

Amazons can enchant.

Vigilio magic allows the creation of Animo.

Kabbalah allows golems.

Hermetic Inclination by (Form). Like Touched by (Realm), but only uses one form. It has two advantages - first anyone can use the item, not just the person it was crafted for. Second, it is a permanent enchantment; it does not expire when the recipient does.

There seems to be no ways in Hermetic magic to investigate non-Hermetic items to learn of their powers. IMHO that is a shame.

Basic ArM5 had not yet any specific non-Hermetic traditions. So ArM5 p.100 Investigating Enchantments does not specifically address the case of non-Hermetic magic enchantments being investigated. But provided the SG has determined their respective powers and corresponding Hermetic Arts, she can apply these rules also to them.
This is corroborated by HoH:S p.128f: after observing active magic emanating from an enchantment - Hermetic or not - with Comprehend Magic, a Pralixian multiplies her Magic Theory by her Comprehend Magic score to generate the InVi lab total to investigate this enchantment according to ArM5 p.100.


That's how I'd like it to be. According to RAW (ArM p100) there is no mention of investigating non-Hermetic devices, no mention whether or not this is possible. So you could interpret this and rule either way, depending on temperament. Some people want rules to explictly say you can't do a certain thing or else it's ok. Some people want tules to say explictly you can do it before they feel it's ok.

HoH:Soc page 128 does not explicitly say Comprehend Magic allows investigating non-Hermetic devices either, it just says you multply Magic Theory with Comprehend Magic for the lab total. It says SGs may choose to allow Comprehend Magic to give insight into adapting non-Hermetic magicn into Hermetic Theory. This sounds like the Insight rules from Ancient Magic/Hedge Magic.

Moving into HR territory:
I imagine investigating non-Hermetic devices being possible. But should Comprehend Magic be required to do it, or merely be a bonus? I'm voting for bonus. Although it should only apply for devices with magical powers - not faerie, infernal or divine!
Now, I also think non-Hermetic powers should be harder to investigate. Not harder to detect, but harder to understand fully. But how?
One way would be to apply a flat penalty (perhaps -20) to Investigation Lab Totals, which Comprehend Magic either ignores, or helps mitigate by being multiplied by Magic Theory.
Another way could be to require the Investigation Lab Totals to use the relevant [Tradition] Magic Theory in stead of the Hermetic version, so if you aren't adept in this particular tradition then investigating devices is harder. But 0xComprehend Magic is still 0, so how does this ability help when you don't know the [Tradition] Magic Theory? Maybe having Comprehend Magic means you always count as having (at least) an effective score of 1 in any [Tradition] Magic Theory?

Could you use the appropriate (Realm) Lore to investigate non-Hermetic devices?

People this way can also decide per tradition, just when to apply plain ArM5 p.100, and when to make up something special instead. Which is how I like it - and perhaps some authors too, who do not wish to beforehand nail down the chamberpots of all the non-Hermetics still to come. 8)

The chapter New Supernatural Ability: Comprehend Magic defines this ability, and does speak of 'magic' as magic in general, Hermetic and not. Where Hermetic magic is intended in this chapter, this is specially formulated and stressed. When mentioning there "investigating enchantments (ArM5 p.100)", such distinction is not made. So I read this to mean, that at least those with Comprehend Magic can investigate all magic enchantments, also the non-Hermetic ones, by the method described on ArM5 p.100. This also fits well with the Pralixians being those with the special talent to understand non-Hermetic magic.