Oath of Covenant...

Shouldn´t the Example Oath of Covenant read in the Year of Aries,not in
the Year of our Lord ?
Especially considering the relations between Church and Order ?

Well.. I'd think it would take an Organisation Lore (Order of hermes) of atleast 4 to understand the reason behind this reference to Jesus.


My Organisation Lore is higher than that....

In my opinion, the adversity between Order and Church is slightly forced. More so in older versions of the game than in the current version. It was as if magi and the church must fight.

My understanding is that historic grimories commonly made Christian praises as spells were invoked. This suggests to me that at least for magi, there was less animosity towards religion and church than players of Ars might like.

Anyway I like in the year of our Lord, though I suppose Aries invokes the feel of wizards. It's an easy change and I think the charter should be taken as a guideline.

The Charter of our covenant is much harsher. If you leave the covenant you lose all your works except for talisman and familiars. So if you make whatever, a book, an item, a spell. It's the covenants property if you chose to leave. Much tougher than the Canon Charter.

Then you must know it was a big deal during the foundation of the order.

The Mercurian order was falling due to the Christianity. The founders assembled within the great Germanic Holy Empire & created this oath.

Jerbiton meaby forced this line to be added to help proove that the order was 'Good' in the eye of the Church.

Who knows.. the fact that it disturbs is such a great story hook. some may want to have it changed... some will support it for different reasons.


Why not use like other civilized men:

Ab urbe condita (AUC or a.u.c.)

from the founding of the city of Rome, supposed to have happened in 753 BC.


Are you suggesting that there is hostility between Order and Church? I certainly haven't noticed that in ArM5.


There is just the little Fact that Dominion affects Magic negativly and Magic can look a lot like a miracle.
I think that great minds like mages and churchmen can overlook this little detail.

It probatly depends on the individuals in Question.
But there is a little hint about the Order of St.Nerius in "The Divine" which
has the Goal of getting the Church to tolerate at least Magical Beasts and Faeries (pg 94 Divine), and the "slight" bias in the Bible against Magic-Users.

Just my thoughts.
(in our Campaign our Covenant is part of a Welsh Monastery...)

Worth noting that Magi are men too, and everyone else in the world uses that way of keeping time. Not much different from the way modern people use it - only difference is that we avoid the phrase "...of the lord".

A side remark, as a Jew: we use "Year xxxx as the Christians count" or "as THEY count". By the same token, "Year xxxx as the Mundanes count" or "of the Church" or something like that can be used.

But dosen´t the Order count itself in the Age of Aries or so ?
(Please don´t make me dig through all my damm books....)

Indeed it does. It's even in the Hermetic Oath.
I have no idea why they didn't use the opportunity of switching to 5e to switch to the correct asrological age.

Good point. It would add some mythic flare. Again I see this Charter as a broad template for people to use and modify. Our Magi would laugh at this charter and say something like 'it's far to liberal in the powers and privledges it grants to young magi.'

And for those of us who are not COOF's ,
it seems totally fair and reasonable. :stuck_out_tongue:

So true....... :laughing:
and for a while Iwas one of those suffering Young Magi (not in Tuuras-Campaign).

If your ever in the Illinois Tribunal your welcome to join.