Of talismans and MT limits

I nominate caribet's post for the FAQ because we've had this conversation more than once before (which is probably why he was able to sum it up so well in his post).

I wrote making the talisman without opening it.
Manufacturing the physical item and preparing with runes.

The process of using runes and the special Verditius crafting techniques are, according the the rules, intrinsically part of the process of enchantment. The verditius can't do that stuff without opening the item for enchantment, making it ineligible for a talisman.

That's right. For the talisman to become as closely attuned to you as needed to become a talisman, it must be part of you - you have to do everything yourself.
The most you can do involving others is to have one or more lab-assistants.

However, all of the MT score-limited elements (number of components, pawns per season etc) remain unaffected by the assistants.

I am not aware that any of the Verditius mysteries (or any others, for that matter) allow a subsidiary assistant to contribute their virtue (or special crafting technique) if the lead magus does not have the virtue (technique...) themselves

  • I would rule not if I were asked...

Really, I think the description of the restrictions on making a talisman personally are sufficiently clear and unambiguous as to their intent that one can safely rule out almost any extension which lets others do any part of it for you!

Think of it like a Mystery Initiation - you go out and gather the pieces of the future talisman, alone & un-witnessed, craft them personally, open the enchantment unaided, then bind the device to the very core of your magic. To do anything less, with less effort, would taint the talisman and its link to the core of your magic.

You CAN get a Verditius to make an Item of Quality though (If I understand it correctly..?)
I would say though that is open to debate...
anyone?

Sounds like a new mystery cult/virtue... :smiley:

I'd say you could get a Verditius to make an Item of Quality (I let a magus IMS do that). As as you could get a mundane craftsman to craft a mundane item for you.
As I see it, the important thing is, that the future owner of the Talisman opens it for enchantment and instills the Talisman attunement himself. That's the personal bit needed.
Otherwise, therw would be unnecessary limits, which really was only concerning purely mundane subjects. Every item needs some crafting and prepping, from the state the thing is normally found. The iron ore needs to be dug up, smelted, forged intot he sword, the gem needs to be cut and polished etc.

Where can I found the related rules exactly?

last part of the magic chapter of the core book (not the Laboratory chapter) where mysteries are discussed.

Page 93. Second sentence of second paragraph of Verditius Magic section: "in the first season, when opening an item for enchantment, the magus may shape the raw materials into an appropriate item."

Followed by the third paragraph, first sentence:

"Most Verditius magi creating such items do so in a way, blah, blah, blah.."

These quotes aren't related to the subject.

The second paragraph says the Verditius can use his tricks during the enchantment. So this may be the solution because enchantment involves opening the item.
Thanks.

Then I guess I don't understand the topic... I thought it was whether a verditius could make an item with verditius runes that someone else made into an talisman. That was what my reply you asked for rules support for was about....

And that is pretty clearly not legal, as the Runes are applied in the process of opening the item for enchantment... which precludes the item from being used by anyone else for talismanic purposes.

What question were you actually asking?

Nevermind! :smiley:
You got it and your answer is right. I just said the key is not your quotes but mine. That's all.

I have a question.

Imagine that 1 effect take 9 seasons to instill. (Labtotal is 200, effect is level 180)

Can i get 9 attunements open, or only 1?

9, you're working on it for 9 seasons. Same as if you made 9 seasons worth of single-season enchantments.

Thanks for the answer!