Not negate, reduce. For example, in HProj, The Hands of Phereclus (pg 63) is ReHe(Te) 40, and lists the Ease Factors to make each ship. What I'm suggesting is a stackable "+1 pre-designed elements" modifier which reduces the Ease factor by, say, 3 per.
In which case, you could have a ReHe(Te) 50 version which would build a River Barge on an ease factor of 9, but nearly half of the design (6/15 = 40%) would be pre-determined and inalterable at time of casting.
This is just kabitzing.
The +2 upsize makes 100 cubic paces of stone, indeed, but that's not the same as 100 paces cubed. 100 cubic paces of stone would be say a block with dimenions 5 paces x 5 paces x 4 paces, or 15' x 15' x 10'. Or, maybe more relevant to building houses, it could be 1800 square feet of walls/ceilings a half a yard thick. That's enough to make a warehouse (just outer walls and ceiling) with a single 10'-tall story that's 27' square. How that compares to the desired design, which undoubtedly has some interior walls 
, is unknown to me....
Dammit, I know better, too. It's what I get for engaging in a debate over in the main forum and not paying attention to what I write... right here. 
Anyway, I'm invoking the rule of handwavium unless you want to argue with amul over it and make it +3 size, for a final effect level of 35...
The Lab Total works out like this:
Cr 7 Te 15 + Affinity 3 + MT 7 + Aura 5 + Familiar 6 +4 Lab Gen + 2 Lab Terram + Abigail 11 + Sheelagh 5 + 5 Similar spell (BPH)
= 70 + Experimentation 3 + Sheelagh Inventive Genius 6 +__ die
= 79 + die
(with lab Safety 5, including the Golden Cord 2 from my familiar, that doesn't increase the number of botch dice I'd roll)
So, we're looking for a spell design of 35 or 40 that creates a Roman Villa for Moon duration.
Maybe I'll call this "original research", since it's so out of character for her to experiment. What is she researching? Probably something to do with this whole "Target:Individual, Size +3 isn't Target:Structure" nonsense. I'd have to go looking at those rules again, though.
I have no desire to argue. (Well, I'm an Ars Magica player, so that's demonstrably false - but you know what I mean. :mrgreen: ) Especially with a +1 for complexity in there somewhere, that could mean thinner walls, windows/archways, and all kinds of reasons why the above warehouse calculation was too conservative.
Note that a barn is, in HProj, a Size+3 CrHe building.
Sounds about right...that's what I have the Cabin of Earthen Wood set at over in Canaries.
Lab Texts I'm hoping to Purchase Marked In Green or Red (red = affects Viscaria's seasonal math in a particular way, don't worry about it)
I updated Vicaria's entries in the Magi Planner doc to reflect currently available data and plans. As things stand now, by the time of Tribunal, she'll have:
[*]Talisman (4/18) and Familiar effects
[list]+10 versus demons, affect things by touch + 4, rego terram +4
"Swan's Descent" or whatever, MuAn(ReTe) 6 spell
"Perceive the Mystic Aura" CrIg(InVi) 23
2-way Mental Communication with Theraphosa
An additional CrMe 10 familiar enchantment[/:m]
[]4x Quarry rings (5/6)
Stone Cutter (ReTe15),
Enchanted Porter(ReTe15),
Shape The Supporting Pillar (ReTe 3 +1 Stone, +1 Touch, +5 50 uses/day = ReTe10).[/:m]
[]3x Foundation Stones for bridges (based on HProj 41, "Flying Buttress")
[/:m]
[]1 Candle-ring (5/6),
Lamp Lighters (base 3 +1 touch +2 ring +10 unlimited = CrIg20),
Hearth-Starters (base 4 +1 touch +2 ring +10 unlimited = CrIg25). [/:m]
[] [strike]Pegasuarus Rex, the MuAn(ReTe) 30 modification to Ogmios' Saddle[/strike][/:m]
[]"Villa for a Moon" CrTe 40, Touch, Moon, Ind+3 (spell)[1] (would other CrTe building spells be available?)
[/:m]
[]61 Levels of ReTe (mostly Craft) spells
[/:m]
[]46 Levels of MuVi spells, including Wizards Communion 30[2][/*:m][/list:u]
This costs 29 ReTe vis (using the chess pieces, that's 14 ReTe, 1 Te).
Along the way, she generates 2 Me, 1 Ig, 2 An, +9 (Form) vis to spare, which she'll trade with to get Mons Electi stores more diverse.
[1]Currently costs her a fatigue level to cast, but most buildings probably take a minute or two to walk around.
[2]Also costs fatigue, but it's the only lab text for it we have.
Red items require a lab text to produce this level of output. In the case that only numbers are highlighted, reduce by one.
Compare this to our original list:
I see it like that, too.
It's like a spell to create a sword. It'll always create a sword, and you'll need a different spell to create a spear, but you can vary the design and appearance of your sword with each casting.
So, IIUC: you can have the "normal" CtMT, which requires a finesse roll but allows you to vary the interior design somewhat, or a specific spell, say, "Conjuring Viscaria's Abode", which is one more magnitude, always conjure the exact same kind of tower, but doesn't require a finesse roll?
I see things almost the same way, count me in! 
Also, it gives a pretty good reason to have specific spells, and variants of them, while also providing a solution for those magi who don't want to bother with finesse, all of which are, IMO, very, very good
So, what's the final design???
This... Although she hasn't had the time to learn much, Adeline could help with this. She only has finesse 1, but this makes her one of the few cove folk with finesse.
Hum... If it ain't too late, I can maybe shift a little her characteristics around to give her a slightly better dex (at this point, IIRC, she has -1).
This is the kind of things she'd help with, since it makes her more valuable in the eyes of magi, more different from the other common folk, and will train her in areas in which she'll be better able to serve Isen (yes, she's always thinking on how to secure and improve her station).
I see it like that, too.
It's like a spell to create a sword. It'll always create a sword, and you'll need a different spell to create a spear, but you can vary the design and appearance of your sword with each casting.
So, IIUC: you can have the "normal" CtMT, which requires a finesse roll but allows you to vary the interior design somewhat, or a specific spell, say, "Conjuring Viscaria's Abode", which is one more magnitude, always conjure the exact same kind of tower, but doesn't require a finesse roll?
I see things almost the same way, count me in!
Also, it gives a pretty good reason to have specific spells, and variants of them (and thus a good repertoire of spells), while also providing a solution for those magi who don't want to bother with finesse, all of which are, IMO, very, very good
So, what's the final design???
This... Although she hasn't had the time to learn much, Adeline could help with this. She only has finesse 1, but this makes her one of the few cove folk with finesse.
Hum... If it ain't too late, I can maybe shift a little her characteristics around to give her a slightly better dex (at this point, IIRC, she has -1).
This is the kind of things she'd help with, since it makes her more valuable in the eyes of magi, more different from the other common folk, and will train her in areas in which she'll be better able to serve Isen (yes, she's always thinking on how to secure and improve her station).
Villa de Luna CT: +25 (29) + Aura
CrTe 40, R: Touch D: Moon T: Individual (+3 Size) +2 elaborate
This would be a moon duration building, a decent sized villa or manor. This version creates exactly and specifically one building design each time it is cast, but it is elaborate and impressive.
(There's an extra +1 complexity there, putting it somewhere between CtMT's +3 for free design specs @ time of casting, and the +1 for no finesse roll. What that extra magnitude does -- whether that makes it just extra impressive, or if it allows, for example, a few different, pre-designed options, is still up for discussion.)
~blink~ Really? You realize this gig is magically enhanced manual labor, right? It's a 4-person quarry team, however nifty the magic. Plus, it's a job with no end in site. We're basically creating yet another cottage industry of stone production.
Seen like that...
Maybe she jumps at the chance and then later realizes what she's gotten herself into....after a few seasons of Finesse practice.
You know what? I thought about it, but didn't write it 
Fact is, she would be interested by a little practice in finesse, but it'll get old very soon
In case I wasn't being explicit enough regarding the most recent list, I am asking the following questions:
JL, at your suggestion, I sent out letters requesting input and feedback from other NPC magi. I haven't heard back from any of them yet. Nor, not to put too fine a point on it, have you responded to any of my efforts to acquire lab texts, books, game prizes, etc.
I think so, I mean, have a space for the tribunal, have a space for a hermetic fair, have a space for the tournament, which may be in the same spot as the tribunal, since they run consecutively. And keep the meeting out of the view of mundanes.
I'm going to reserve this as an in-character response, so if you want input, you either need to invite someone to review the work, or wait for comments in the Crowbar thread.
Is Marcus doing the baths? Andru recommended that in his letter.
Ok, I responded as Andru... Prospero will be sending a response via Alexei, but essentially she will be invited to come visit him, whenever she'd like, but he doesn't write letters unless it's a discussion of Magic Theory. Beyond that, I really am missing what you say you asked for...
Again, I pretty strongly hinted that Viscaria's desires exceeded what was available from Confluensis, given what I said about Maris not using the Tribunal's texts.
What game prizes are you talking about? The tournament prizes are vis sources held in common by the tribunal, those vis sources which are not declared seisin.
So, again, I'm waiting for jebrick to say he's ready to do something with Renuad, I said this a month ago to the day, IIRC. He was transitioning to a new job, so I'd put it on hold, pending his indicating he was ready. I don't herd cats... If you need him to act faster or act as Renuad, ask him? In character, or not? I'll kick it off to happen in 1223.1, but the player needs to confirm he can do something... His character and he are doing Viscaria a favor, so this is a player to player/character to character discussion that I don't think it's fair for me to be a part of. Remember, he's a Lone Redcap, so appealing to that might motivate the character/player...
Last you asked me was whether Heims and Cygna had responded...well, no, they hadn't that's where I deus ex machina'd them into Chronicles.
I'm hoping for player input, too.
Frankly, I'm at a loss as to who else to ask for critiques from. I would invite Tria to give me her opinion, but her chapter is AFTER the Tribunal. Do we have any other Hermetic visitors? Flambeau working with the Milites? Anybody? Aside from Phoenix, Tria and Andru, we don't seem to have any named allies. I invited the Spider's Palace kids, but they're apparently kissing babies and greasing palms elsewhere. Possibly, they haven't forgiven me for the trick that I'm about to pull on them in Mother's Footsteps.
I haven't figured out a good way to start that conversation yet, since I'm not in any threads with him, and it isn't clear to me if he's become a covenant member. In other words, I don't know where he lives, so I'm not sure how to ask him IC.
Okay, from my perspective, this is basically what you've told me:
And now you seem to be telling me that my desire to ask around for lab texts is going to be thwarted because Confluensis will not have any lab texts that I want. Are we miscommunicating again? Has my cell phone once again eaten an important post where I say "Those things that I've been saying I want to do? I would like to actually do them."
Viscaria would like to use the excuse of the Tribunal to expand our library, and spend some of our vis on books and lab texts. We don't have council meeting threads wherein we can discuss such purchasing trips to with the group. Should I start one?
You know what? I am just going to start one.
(Tangent: I'm not sure that you grasp the full import of the proposed house rule about lab texts, but I suspect they change the value of those lab texts. Certainly, they would have influenced what choices I would have made.)
Is there going to be sufficient furniture, doors, etc? Do we need to worry about finding vendors or supplying foodstuffs, etc?
"Prizes for the A&S Competition" : Again, in addition to everything else, we've built a classical museum and are hosting a mundane craft fair, encouraging each covenant to show off the work of their most prized mundane artistans. It's a very Jerbiton sort of thing for us to do. We need prizes to give out. Alexei apparently knows a Verditus Items of Quality guy, but I got crickets when I asked for more details about him, so maybe we'll just make trophies? I wanted SG input on what was available/canonical.
(tangent: Items of Quality is a horribly broken virtue. An entire season making one item? Don't get me started...)
AFAIK, he said he was ready for the chapter to begin. But I can't find the quote now, so ~shrug~ Regardless, I'm going to start a thread to circumvent this whole "waiting on Confluensis when no one is sure why we're waiting on them" nonsense.
The Flambeau are being given a field a bit further awasy so as to contain their activities a bit more (at least thats what we originally talked about). The Milites are pretty much part and parcel with them, but my thinking is that they'll help contain and civilize them a bit further maybe.
Don't pull a trick, then? You have freedom to know about other named magi from the Tribunal book, certainly Thera knows them. You even have some freedom to develop some sketches, if you want someone. Flambeau in Normandy are scarce, though a holdover of Tytalus flexing their muscles after the schism war. I'm currently working on the ladder brackets for the tourney events, these character are a bit more fully formed than last tribunal. Give me a couple of weeks and I'll post it, these would be obvious people to invite, although if you create a few, mi wouldn't object. Indeed this could be open to everyone.
You and me both...I'm unclear on his status. As soon as I killed Apollodorus, I really lost my voice to advise. This is good and bad.
Viscaria was too busy to get things done. I'd like to see a more complete shopping list. Is everything needed fully defined with all the necessary effects? Or am I designing and pricing the effects? Maybe with Viscaria assuming a parter position she needs to hire out things that she had intended to do herself? There is a Bonisagus in Stonehenge that is unhappy....and two people Viscaria knows know about him. He'd make a good hired hand, so to speak.
There isn't anything close to consensus there though, I see three or four opinions. It's tough to price out things with that in flux.
300 people for a week, define how much hospitality and how opulent you want things to be. I'm leaning towards not enough furniture, doors. Redcaps can handle some basic food vendor coordination. If you want fancy banquets and grand dining, probably need to borrow a chef from an allied covenant in another Tribunal
How is this being communicated to the Tribunal? Past Tribunal, which is representative of all previous ones consists of the redcap run fair, basic, but not stellar food is available, housing needs are supplied, and space for the attributable and Tournament.
OK
Yeah, i looked, too, I think the best I found is I'll let you know.
They're the only defined magi NPCs who are younger than us. Viscaria isn't being dastardly, just.....instructional. 
I think what I'm looking for is a little more joint-creative effort in fleshing out the world like that. I don't feel like I have sufficient understanding to provide input on world development beyond the ways I have already done. How about this? I'll define a piece, then ask you for a piece, and then see if I can hand off the play to other players:
I would like a story thread wherein a few/handful/small group of magi, who are younger than us but more familiar with the Normandy Tribunal, request a visit to Mons Electi, and we have to play host for a few days, during which time Viscaria will show off the progress on the Tribunal Field. Could you, JL, come up with an outline of why they've come, and maybe a rough guide for individual characters (Two Bonisagus, 10-20 years PG, and an Ex Misc, walk into Mons Electi and ask the bartender...)
I have no idea what Ladder Brackets are, but if you need help, ask and I'll help.
Call his status then, "Dependent on Fiona and that chapter." Asking him to design the Roman baths will be something V does at the end of that chapter, then.
For the mundane items, I'm not certain how I could offer a more complete list. The ones that are general are general either because specifics don't matter ("Furniture for 300, or enough quality wood to make it ourselves") or because what's suitable and available are uncertain ("Prizes for the A&S"), or because greater specificity by me deprives others players opportunities ("books on architecture" let you bring in Tektonius of Bonisagus).
As far as the lab texts go, they are either straight out of the book, or they've been designed and posted in this thread so you could review them and approve/disapprove of them. The only exception to that is the up to 61 Levels of ReTe spells (mostly Craft) and the up to 46 levels of MuVi including the Wizards Communion 30 we own. I assumed you'd want some input into those. I also have the Tribunal Season itself open, nominally "for learning PeVi /DEO spells or Tribunal Politicking."
At this point, the Defense Discussion thread may have yielded additional lab texts we'd want to look for, but they aren't as defined.
Not sure who you're talking about, but I like the direction this is headed. Tell me more! 
There isn't anything close to consensus there though, I see three or four opinions. It's tough to price out things with that in flux.
[/quote]
Currently at 4 votes for one variation, but the point that I'm trying to make is that I don't want you to have to make all these decisions at once. If, for example, you were to decide on the results of Fiona's scribal efforts at Durenmar now, and then slowly review each of the Tribunal spell designs and say, "You can find somebody who sells this," or "close but not exact," etc, then that'll give us all time to develop some RP around who has what. Then you can price stuff once we've interacted with the magi that we've created who have the stuff we want.
The way things have been piling up, particularly on the Tribunal Field thread, you've now got a dozen spells to approve, and it just becomes a laundry list for you to suffer through.
If we're in charge of food....
We'll want to show off the budding Mons Electi vineyard and Hydromel cottage industries.
Viscaria would also make sure that all the "top shelf wines" were from Phoenix. She knows a cook or two there, too, but what she wants isn't "fancy banquets." She wants dozens of "street vendors" and restaurants for an "authentic Roman street experience," (a phrase that inevitably causes the listener to want to adjust their black turtleneck and baret).
If we need more furniture, doors, etc, then we'll go looking for the additional labor in the shopping thread that I just started. We have plenty of forest in the regio. ("And if we can't get it done, let me tell you about my Best Front Door Contest idea...")
Have our scribes write up a bunch of pamphlets and have the Redcaps pass them out. Note that we're not ousting the Redcaps out of their usual cut. On the contrary, we're giving them much nicer accommodations and consideration than they've experienced before. If they're used to providing the food, then we just make it clear that we expect them to bring style and quality.
Viscaria wants to generate a fair amount of buzz and excitement about how cool it will be, about the unusual activities that will be there -- "authentic Roman city layout," the A&S competition for mundane covenfolk, the Roman Baths, rentable rooms for lectures and meetings. She's hoping people will request lecture hall spaces ahead of time, so as to generate more buzz.
In short, she's hoping to establish a Reputation from her effort on this project.
Yes, in the Kind Word and Crowbar thread, I talk about how there's a second quarry site around to the other side of the mountain that we're using for Flambeau Field.