OOC: Character Creation

That wasn't the position you had earlier. You were on about how I wouldn't be able to spend hypothetical build points. That in the hypothetical situation where any hypothetical build points i were to hypothetically be allowed to spend on what I wanted, they would need your approval. As things I would spend points on would be the Covenant's resources.

So. If I decide to buy a book, you won't argue or moan? Will Jebrick need to chime in?

Just tell me what I bring.

No, that was not my position. My assumption was that there be no build points available to give any individual magi any personal, non-standard resources.

My position was, and still is, that if a magus wants a +1 size lab, he needs to negotiate the resources to fund both the building and the upkeep with the council, in character. Similarly, if a magus wants any personal vis above and beyond what is granted by his virtues, then he needs, in character, to petition the council, who may or may not grant it conditionally or unconditionally.

And this position was also Emelric's conclusion, so there is not much point in debating that further.

At this point, I am not going to make any assumptions about how you interpret that questions or how you will interpret my answer, so I think it is best to shut up.

I make suggestions, and Emelric decides. Let's wait for his decision.

Like like like it's an example which I was using as a comparison, Vis or lab or like that. Like a thing one uses build points for. Like books, like other things. Sometimes you just have points to spend, each character spends on whatever the heck their heart desires.

So then you argued Vis, one of the things one would use points for... LIKE books, or LIKE a lab... you argued were Covenant resources that you get to decide upon and take from other characters. As though you get to decide on what people spend points on.

There isn't any debate, you're right. You don't get to decide upon what people spend points on. So why the heck did you have to argue for? You and Jebrick just nitpick everything I do. That's why I haven't said squat in the Covenant thread. The moment I mention anything, doesn't matter what, you two are are going to be on about it, why? I don't know. Just stop.

Now that we have build points, spend my points like you're going to, tell me what I bring. But don't act like you're not doing what you're doing. Let other people play and have fun. Run my books through your council decision making and just skip you needing to do the same. Surprise me.

You want to bring servants, craftsmen, etc. Wtf we don't have a purpose yet. You're going to erect a damn city and full fledged economic base of production and give me crap about hypothetical spending of build points. Where's the council meeting to bring a whole flea market of craftsmen? You're picking a spot before we know why we're there and wanting to make decisions about economics without a meeting. It's more than a little hypocritical.

I am thinking:
Parma Magic Summae level 5 quality 20 in Latin = 35 points
Lab text for Gentle touch of the purified body CrCo level 20 = 4 points (39 total)
Lab text for Purification of the festering wounds CrCo level 20 = 4 points (43 total)
Lab text for Restoration of the defiled body CrCo level 25 = 5 points (48 total)
Lab text for The severed limb made whole CrCo level 25 = 5 points (53 total)
Lab text for Demon's eternal oblivion PeVi level 5 and 10 = 3 points (56 total)
Lab text for Bane of the Fae (as above for Faeries) PeVi level 5 and 10 = 3 points (59 total)
Lab text for Fall of the Titans (as above for Magical creatures) PeVi level 5 = 1 point (60 total).

  • 10 pawns of Creo vis.

Happy to negotiate/change if the troop need it. Lab

I think it is great that we have very different priorities. That makes a diverse library.

Out of curiosity, why do you think it is useful to have both lvl 5 and 10 versions of the same spell?

Its Demons Eternal Oblivion, its wise to have different versions (The 10 can outright kill a 10 and do major damage to a 15, with a simple double the penetration. The 5 is to whittle down mightier demons. I am not so certain about the Bane and the Fall though... I am pretty certain they each need an individual version with a requisite? Like the wards do? Dunno, ask more wise people than me...
I am sorry to rain down on everyone's parade but I am dead against Parma books or any mystery cult books. I know there have been huge discussions about this with arguments from each point of view and I would defer you to them...

As for my magus contributions I am thinking:

30 [tab][/tab][tab][/tab] Subtiliter de Regina by Altus ex Bonisagus [tab][/tab][tab][/tab] Suma on Finesse 5[tab][/tab][tab][/tab]Quality 15[tab][/tab][tab][/tab]Latin
24 [tab][/tab][tab][/tab] Les Chansons d'Artur [tab][/tab][tab][/tab][tab][/tab][tab][/tab][tab][/tab][tab][/tab][tab][/tab]Suma on Fairy Lore 3 [tab][/tab][tab][/tab] Quality 15 [tab][/tab][tab][/tab]French
3 [tab][/tab][tab][/tab] Lab text on Stone Cutting Knife (Convents pg52)
3 [tab][/tab][tab][/tab] Lab text on The Motivated Plow (Convents pg52)

10 pawns of terram vis

I am keeping the Parma book until the story teller says no. It is SO useful if we get it. Let's see what comes back.
The two non-demon PeVi spells are realm based as demon's eternal oblivion is and as such need to be separate spells for that realms creatures and that is what I have bought. Pre-requisites don't really cover the realms. Both spells stilcolumbael reduce the might of the target if they penetrate. If you refer to the various form based wards that is incorrect. The form based wards are from the ex-miscellaneous Columbae source while the vim based wards (and realm related PeVi) spells come from the work of Bonisagius and Notorius that led to the Aegis of the hearth type spells. This is mentioned in the Societies house book in the ex miscellaneous Columbae section.

I have done a quick check of the posted characters and do far we only have three spells repeated across the characters, the crystal dark, intuition of the forest and gift of frogs legs, all taken twice. Not bad from six people making 56 spell picks.

The key for any spell vs a creature with might is having enough penetration to get past their might score, which is their magic resistance. So a level 5 spell will have 5 higher penetration than the level 10 version with the same casting total. As previously stated that helps whistle away at the might of a higher might level creature.

Nice picks. One question though, Any reason to go with French for the faerie lore book? It does restrict who can use it. I am going Latin for the Parma book even though I can't currently read Latin. I feel I am taking one for the team - lol.

I thought the same, but then, I can see the case for some extra flavour too.

OTOH. We need to sort out what languages/dialects we recognise as separate languages in this era. It is not clear-cut. I would assume that French could be either Norman or Provencal. (I do not know to what extent they are mutually comprehensible.) Personally I have given my characters Saxon and Norman, assuming that both languages still co-exist in England at this time. But I am not a historian.

We should at least discuss it, and decide on a consistent set of anachronisms :slight_smile:

BTW. Am I correct in assuming that Artes Liberales 1 suffices to read any language which you speak as long as it is written in Latin script? Or is one point needed per language?

Arts and academies state it is one script per artes liberates score so level 1 gives you all languages in the Latin script/letter set. Greek is different as is Arabic. Strangely I was reading this just a few hours ago, strange coincidence.

You're correct, it's per writing system.

My magus is Breton who has a thing for the Arthurian legend. The whole Arthurian literature is in French I am afraid. This was a gift from his Parens. I am not doing it to be contrary, its historically more apt and its tied to his story :S

So far from what I gleaned from Lion and Lily and Loch Legan books: South Britain transitions from Old English to Anglo-Norman, Whales has Celtic: Welsh, Cornwall has Celtic: Cornish, those are related to Celtic: Breton. Further north is Anglo-Saxon. Way North is Gaelic: Scottish related to Gaelic: Irish. Thats the Highlands language, but in lowlands they have a Scottish mix of Saxon, Gaelic and Norman, as a bridge language of sorts. Then there is Viking speaking parts, Norse language in the isles and some parts of Caithnes. Pictish is a dead language, and some communities speak Flemish. Latin is used by clergy in the south, but in the Highlands services are done in Gaelic. Written systems are two: Latin and Ogham (the later one rarely).
Take the above with a grain of salt, I am no historian, nor do I live there >_<

Trust me living here does not help at all, everything is English with varying degrees of regional accent - lol.


Marko Markoko has done a lot of work trimming the Languages down. He's pretty good.

If anyone has the Lion and the Lilly and can copy the dialects so Emelric can copy off and sticky it in a collection of house rules, it would be cool.

I'm burnt out or I would.


Occitan (Catalan, Limousin, Auvergnat, Provencal, Gascon) (Marco has Lanuedoc, Navarrese too)
French (Orleanais, Bourguignon, Poitevin, Norman, Picard, Waloon, Champenois, Lorrain)
Low German (Frisian, Flemish)

Same language but different Dialect: -1 to both speakers
French - Occitan: -2
Breton - Cornish: -1
Breton - Welsh: -2
French(Norman) - Anglo-Norman : -1
Low German - English: -3 (-2 if Frisian)

Also from Thebes, Romaic Greek - Clasical Greek: -2 and Latin - Italian, Vlach: -3

PS I hope I am not infringing on a copyright here :S

If anything I'm sure Marko Markoko will be proud his legacy lives. Light of Andorra lasted almost a decade.

The -2 from Vernacular to Classic Greek makes me want to make a Greek import.

My guy is probably not going to read Latin. Ireland's monastic colleges aren't doing very well from my understanding, but bardic schools doing well.

So, just to double check, this https://forum.atlas-games.com/t/familiars-from-the-start/246/1
Is unplayable as well?

I updated Bran. Switched house to Ex Miscellanea and picked up Good Teacher, some Communication and teaching. Art of Memory if that is ok. I'm thinking the character is from an oral tradition and will over time be academically oriented, writing books etc. His goal is to master Ignem and it's utility, but in the short term make a name for himself.

I'd still prefer Aella if possible, but Bran will be fun and quirky if not.