OOC: Covenant finances

Good job, Gerg. A fella after me own heart!

I'm fairly certain that it's on both sides.

What's this about the 350 going to the crossbowmen? We don't have any that aren't part of our 50-ish grogs. That should be entirely down as Weapons and Armor, and Wages. I assume this means they only have Standard Armor?

I don't want to look at the entire sheet all at once as it's going to be a bit overwhelming. So can you just show me the math for grogs?

I don't know what the deal is with the mundane side of the covenant. Presumably it has SOME kind of Aura, probably less than 5.

Per covenants, crossbowmen get 9 pence per soldier per day. However, these were rag-tag nearly bandits surviving on scraps. You could pay them a pence per day and they'd still be pretty happy...

These are not a trained, elite corp, either.

Indeed, these are extra wages, above what it costs to maintain (for example) a servant.

Rag-tag bandits, with expensive crossbows? :open_mouth: Or did they receive the crossbows (and training) very recently?

In any case, reducing their extra wages from 9 pence per day to 1 penny (like a standard turb) would save a little over 300 pounds of annual expenditures, putting us between 1000 and 1050.

~checks Covenants~

Okay, I believe this means that each turb member should be worth 3-10 points of Inhabitants, depending on how awesome they are, in a summer covenant. This would bestow the +1 Health modifier to their lives.

Given the condition of the Astingani turb beforehand, I completely agree that we should be able to pay them 3pts of Inhabitants. This, plus the equipment, makes for a massive Loyalty bonus.

A short history on Astingani, as I understand it:
(Additional details, which may not be accurate to our campaign, are in Lion and Lily)
Astingani was a very poor covenant that was vassal to Montverte. They had no real property of their own, and consisted of a handful of magi, including Jacques. Jacques' brother happened to lead a ragtag band of mercenaries who became the turb for Astingani.

They stumbled across a very potent vis source, (which I later defined to be the Wrymwood Essense entry in our vis wiki page), and in order to claim it they cast Aegis of the Hearth around the barn of a nearby shepherd, and threatened the family in order to keep them quiet. Mons Electi found out, and sent Fiona.

Fiona dealt with the problem by throwing a surprising twist at the rag-tag band of cut throats and destitue magi: by offering them vassalage. She argued that Montverte was treating them poorly, and we would do better.

Shortly after this, Jacques joined Mons Electi, and the rest of his covenant decided to move to Ireland or something, letting us claim all their stuff, including Jacques and his brother's mercenaries.

Alexei, in an effort to teach them discipline and turn them into proper soldiers, bought them new uniforms and weapons.

Note that you dropped Rashid when you resorted the wiki page.

Okay, can we see the Cost Reducing Craftsmen now?

You hit all the high points. The others went east, though, to Transylvania, Apollodorus intervened on their behalf...

Korvin will offer and can cast it for the vineyard. I do not think it effects bees since they are just vermin and come from dead cows. You can knock off 4 pawns of Herbam per year that he casts it.

New tangent: Does everybody have access to the Vis Inventory?

I don't think that the bees themselves would be directly affected by the spell, if the spell is cast only on the vineyard (a quick google search indicates that grapes are wind-pollinated, not bee polinated). But if the spell includes an area which would provide plentiful nectar for the bees...

Okay, before I make this adjustment to the Vis Inventory, let me make sure I'm clear: The Bountiful Feast cast on the vineyard costs us 3 Herbam per Spring?

Thanks very much for the Astingani history - I was very much in the dark until now. 8)

He's there, under "Craftspeople and specialists".

There are still several small details that make an incredibly detailed revelation of the budget premature.... Right now I have Chastity and the candlemaker, cooper, beekeeper, vintner, percamenarius, glassblower, and toolsmith combining to save 26 pounds per year (I called the beekeeper, vintner, percamenarius, and glassblower rare and the others common). The annual cost at this moment, after reducing the grogs' pay, is a little over 1060 pounds.

Side note: do bees even pollinate plants in Mythic Europe (i.e., according to medieval understanding)?

And no, I don't know where the vis inventory is. Link from the wiki page perhaps?

'Cuz I added him, while moving all the NPCs onto a different page. I also rearranged the listing of the grogs and animals and such, and made a few notes. You might want to compare the changes I made.

Do you have the Stablemaster (What is he, anyway? Weapons and Armor? Buildings?)

Have you done magic savings yet? ~checks~ Not that there seem to be much of any yet. I can see that Viscaria is going to be spending time building income-saving devices after the Tribunal.
Speaking of which, what year is this for? The Lamp Lighter Wand can be up to 45 levels/9 pounds of savings, once it is created in 1225. The Quarryman's Rings are going to have a major impact on Building expenses. I could whip out 3 more Gunthar's Brooms in a single season, which would replace, what, 5 servants each?

Korvin's casting of Bountiful Feast is going to save 35 pounds of Provisions, once he starts casting it on the vineyard.

Bees pollinate? Probably not. But they eat stuff from flowers and make honey when they're happy.

I added the "Inventory" link to the wiki page, next to Vis Sources.

aha. :blush: slickly done!
Nice other changes too.

I checked this time - he's on the wiki at least, under "Craftsmen and Specialists". I don't know what cost savings would apply; really my thought was that a stablemaster is necessary with 41 horses. Persuade me otherwise though....

No magic savings applied so far. I agree that each Gunthar's Broom could replace 5 servants - you're saying one is made already?

Sounds like we're close to nailing down all the details, so let me propose the following. I'll make an expenditure analysis that's good for 1223. Then we should set, by fiat, a figure for the covenant's income and a figure for its silver stocks at the end of 1223.4. (This would match up with Tranquillina's in-character efforts to organize covenant finances.) Going forward from there, we can track changes to expenditure based on new magic items, etc., and also any one-time costs or gold-ring-digging from stories. (Careful about making more magic brooms though - we might have to fire servants! or at least figure out what to do with them.)

JL, would you want any random fluctuations in income level from year to year?

Remember that Korvin could cast Bountiful Feast on more than just the vineyards.

Paying for a specialist means we have an unusually skilled one, not just some untrained stableboy. A stablemaster with Animal Handling 6 (Horses) would reduce the cost of maintaining those horses because he's so good with them. He'd have specialty diets for each horse, make sure they're all in perfect health and well trained. The riding equipment would all be in very good condition.

Let me put a counter question to you. What is the value of having bought a stablemaster specialist, if not for expense reduction?

Not seeing any magic items that will really reduce expenses, except for the 3 lamps in the library, and I don't think they really count in this context.

Yes, Viscaria shows up with one Gunthar's Broom, which is currently in her lab providing a -1 Upkeep, +1 Health bonus. Best keep it where it is. I agree that replacing 15 servants (nearly 25% of the staff!) with magic items isn't something that gets casually done, but we have some options -- we can assign those servants to work on the new income sources, for example. But yes, we will definitely need to decide what to do about that.

I think your plan regarding the 1223 seems like a good way to go. That said, I'm now going to abuse all this stuff for some IC interaction with Tranquillina based on that math.

Altruism?
Fair enough :slight_smile: Maybe the expense reduction should be to provisions (Covenants does mention "fodder for its horses" there).

abuse + IC interaction = win-win :exclamation:

Sorry, forgot to respond to this. If we include Bountiful Feast as Provisions Savings for 35 pounds (5*Mag = (Level) savings), then I am pretty sure Korvin casts it on everything he needs to in one sitting.

Jebrick, can you please confirm the cost of casting The Bountiful Feast? I'm assuming that is Mercurian goodness going on there?

(and, as a tangent, can we PLEASE get this magus some more rituals to cast!?)

Jebrick, can you please confirm the cost of casting The Bountiful Feast? I'm assuming that is Mercurian goodness going on there?

(and, as a tangent, can we PLEASE get this magus some more rituals to cast!?)
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It does not state rounding up or down so I would round up and say 4 pawns for BF and it is boundary so we just have to define the boundary.

And don't forget that the boundary has a base size...

Grr. I really object to this well-defined square footage conception of the sizes. It really cuts into the Mythic feel of the game.

Unless some of our agricultural efforts are taking place on the regio side, then the boundary of Bountiful Feast has nothing to do with the boundary of the Aegis. It only needs to encapsulate our agricultural efforts. Do we really want to sit down and calculate the square footage of the as-yet-undefined set of fields where we grow our indeterminate crops to feed our hand-waved population?

I've added this to the Vis Inventory Spreadsheet.