OOC discussion thread

Hi,

I am cleaning up a larger write-up, which I will post within the next day or so.

Iohannes has plastered a huge sanctum marker on the sail, a smaller marker on the hull next to the ship's name "Sanctum Mysterium," and still another on on the door to his cabin.

How nosy are the nosy passengers? Opening the door to Iohannes' cabin without invitation? :slight_smile: It's hard to be a nosy passenger in a ship underway without getting underfoot and being noticed by the crew (who do not generally react positively to the Gifted), but magic might provide a way. Asking for a tour of the ship when things aren't too exciting might prove more informative. The writeup talks about things in an OOC way, some of which even a nosy passenger isn't likely to notice, at least not until he's spent quite a bit of time aboard.

Hi,

The sail has a giant sanctum marker on it, possibly the largest in the Order. :slight_smile: There is another on the hull, next to the ship's name. The ship is named "Sanctum Mysterium." A character who does not ask Iohannes is free to draw his own conclusions.

Anyway,

Ken

If this were Feng Shui, I'd never write up a ship like this, because that would only invite destruction...

A write-up this extensive risks inviting stories about what it takes to have and keep a great ship and crew at the expense of the stories I really want, which are about what Iohannes is going to do with a great ship and crew. So...

The Sanctum Mysterium is not a real ship.

If it were real, and completely true to period, the decks would leak into the hold, the castle would be a temporary structure, and the ship would be a generally miserable place to live. Living aboard a cog in any kind of comfort is a story conceit.

If the Sanctum Mysterium were real, we would have a hard time characterizing it, beyond its dimensions. There's a lot of information out there about cogs, and it isn't consistent. Here is a typical cog: www.hansekogge.de/hkwcms/download.php?1 ... 6255c85641. Both pages describe the same cog, with estimates of carrying capacity diverging by almost a factor of 3.

Worst of all, I'd have to learn far more about sailing than I care to know, in order to get all the technical details right as I describe what Iohannes does and how the ship works, along the lines of "But Ken, if you do that maneuver the ship will capsize, or, if you're lucky, the rudder will break first, and in any case, Iohannes doesn't have line of sight. Besides, Iohannes would know that a ship is much faster on a reach than a run...." (Cogs actually do extremely well on runs, according to what I've read, which is way too much.)

So, the Sanctum Mysterium is not a real ship, but it's real enough for Mythic Europe.

My point of departure is a real cog.

Things to know about real cogs:

The cog is a clinker-built ship. No clinker-built ship will have a length that exceeds 30m. Even when shipbuilding technology allows much larger ships, a surprising number of European seafaring ships will have dimensions close to those of cogs that have been excavated. Check out the dimensions of Columbus' ships, to see what I mean.

A real cog, or any ship with square sails, will have one crewman per 10 tons; a ship with lanteen sails will double that. Having dedicated fighters adds to that.

Real cogs are cargo vessels first and warships second. As I observed earlier, matching real tonnage to real ships poses difficulties. Also, the Labor Point system sort of assumes that stuff exists to be shipped in appropriate amounts, unless a story intervenes; there's a list of cargo costs in the game, but this has not been integrated into the rest of the system, nor need it be.

Things I don't know about real cogs:

Lots! For example, where does the captain stand? So, I'll just wing it.

Departures from Reality

Iohannes has a comfortable sanctum aboard ship, and his choice to live there is not crazy. He can sail around in his lab just fine, unless a story intervenes. Meanwhile, he continues to earn the ship's income, less expenses, but again, stories can arise around this. The Sanctum Mysterium is a going concern, except when Iohannes wants to do something special, or needs to.

I don't worry about draft; I assume that the Sanctum Mysterium can sail on big rivers, but not little ones. By "big river" I include rivers that reach major cities. This is not realistic, and is perhaps simply an Extraordinary Quality. This property will not draw undue attention, unless Iohannes tries to dock in places obviously designed for much smaller boats. (In period, larger boats would stand offshore in deeper water and be serviced by smaller boats.)

Iohannes uses sailing techniques that no one will be using them for centuries, but that are not far beyond the technology of the period. Medieval sailors are not magi, do not have Artes Liberales scores, would not have the time to learn how to use an astrolabe or other tools, would be focused on today's job rather than the next century, would not likely have traveled beyond their home seas and be exposed to the various innovations of the north and of the south which already exist, and when finally combined in full led to trans-oceanic ships and such.... I feel comfortable assuming that Iohannes brings a different perspective to sailing.

Cogs primarily clung to the coast, but this is a limitation of normal medievel sailing practices rather than ships; Iohannes sails from point to point when it suits him.

Real cogs are stable but have a nasty roll and are not comfortable. The Sanctum Mysterium is not so bad, but is still a ship.

The Sanctum Mysterium is obviously set apart from other cogs in its cleanliness. (This could happen in reality, but never would.)

The deck does not leak; obviously, this does not apply during severe storms.

Cogs in a 14th century idealization: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:BattleofSluys.jpeg

General Design Rule

Things that can be done in Mythic Europe by throwing money at the problem generally have been; things that can be done by spending time working up enchantments in the lab generally have not, with very few exceptions. Iohannes has spent the last ten years engaged in mundane pursuits, and has done about as well as one might expect of a magus who applies himself to such things. Money isn't an issue for him (and isn't in play; his taking such things seriously in play reflect his participation in that part of life.) He has not spent time enchanting things and is missing things I would want him to have.

The Sanctum Mysterium is a fantastic ship but ultimately mundane, rather than a work of enchantment that grudgingly obeys physical laws.

Sanctum Mysterium Basics

A cog, larger than many, yet smaller than the very largest, thereby allowing excellent maneuverability and the possibility to navigate the important rivers of Mythic Europe, while affording good cargo capacity and space for Iohannes' lab. She is large enough to have a small boat and does(this was not actually done in period).

She has a flat bottom and is designed to be beached (like all cogs of this period). She is clinker-built and therefore extremely rugged. She has a single, large, square sail, emblazoned with a Sanctum marker. There's another Sanctum marker on the door to Iohannes' cabin, and still another painted on the hull, next to the ship's name. There's a crow's nest, above which fly two banners, one with a Sanctum marker and another--currently--indicating that the ship is affiliated with Lubeck. (Iohannes has all kinds of other standards available.)

Her prow is lovingly carved and painted like the head of a sea bird, and the rounded hull flowing out from there might vaguely hint at a bird's body, but the prow is fashioned to evoke the appearance of the hull.

I imagine that the Sanctum Mysterium can carry 100 tons, after crew, sanctum and everything else has been accounted for. But maybe I'm wrong! Actual tonnage doesn't matter.

I also imagine a ship 23m long, 8m beam, 2m draft and 5m high, simply because that's what has been dug up.

Sustained speed of 8mph, or almost 200 miles per day, used to gauge travel distance between two points, independent of wind, normal bad weather and similar conditions. (At the edge of realism; I assume especially favorable handling characteristics and seamanship.) Favorable conditions can increase this. This assumes that Iohannes is not actively bringing magic to the table, beyond bespelling some crew.

When Iohannes actively brings magic to bear, and devotes his attention to that, the Sanctum Mysterium accelerates to the speed of plot. Conversely, an especially nasty storm or other story event might slow the ship, or speed it in the wrong direction, again at the speed of plot.

Iohannes rarely sails in a way that is obviously magical to onlookers; he does not embark in winter, for example, melting the ice in his way, or such. But his practices are sufficiently advanced and enhanced that only the very few people who both care to notice and understand what it is they notice realize that he does remarkable things, not simply eccentric or risky. And what they notice is evident more by absence than presence, such as the Sanctum Mysterium being gone when the city wakes up in the morning.

The Sanctum Mysterium uses a stern rudder.

Excellent Quality Item +3: The Sanctum Mysterium provides +3 to all Profession(mariner) rolls made by anyone on board. This obviously includes navigation, setting sails, giving chase, maneuvering, and so on, but also rolls where Profession(mariner) might substitute for something else, such as keeping balance due to the ship's superior stability, or not getting seasick.

Aside from this, the ship has equipment with the following extra-ordinary qualities:

  1. Terrific tiller: The tiller is not only surprisingly short, it allows the rudder to be guided easily by one man of +0 Str or better under any conditions.
  2. Rugged rigging: The sail, stays and cordage have been specially crafted for the Sanctum Mysterium and thereby take on the endurance of the ship. Thus, a fire that will not burn the hull will not burn the sail or ropes, a wind that will not break the hull will neither shred the sail nor unmoor the mast. The most obvious benefits of this are that Iohannes can sail in winds too stiff for other ships, if his seamanship is up to it, and that an enemy derives no advantage from targeting the sail or rigging.
  3. Super Sealant: The Sanctum Mysterium is so well-calked that it is truly water-proof. Water might enter the ship if something breaks, or if a wave washes over the ship and pours water into open hatches, but never because of leakage.

The Sanctum Mysterium is not obviously a superior ship at first or even second glance. It has a few odd design features that seem less than desirable. The sterncastle is built into the hull (never done in period); other ships use a temporary structure because it adds weight. The helmsman is stationed atop the castle rather than on deck, where he cannot see past the sail. Only an experienced mariner or shipbuilder would notice such things; other people would just see a cog, weirdly clean. A closer inspection would reveal the quality of its construction, how everything fits together.

Role in mundane Mythic Europe: The Sanctum Mysterium can take inexpensive, bulk cargoes (grain, fish...), but other ships will do that more efficiently. The Sanctum Mysterium commands a premium for higher value bulk cargoes (iron, fur...), and an extreme premium for cargoes that aren't measured in tons, especially when time and safety matter. Deft Mentem spells help Iohannes find out what the market will bear and ensure that he gets it. Iohannes will often want a share of the profits, or participate as an investor. She has sailed past Gibralter and other choke points. Iohannes almost never engages in piracy; this has happened only as part of a larger conflict (you're a pirate when you're on the wrong side!) or even less often, for some obscure, secret reason arising from a Story Flaw. When this has happened, Iohannes does not leave enemies, because that's just a bad idea. Especially when they have witnessed magic.

The Sanctum Mysterium is three years old and has a reputation among those who might benefit from her services. Such people generally assume that the name refers to the safety the ship affords.

Crew

19 men plus Iohannes:
01 apprentice seaman, a boy
11 journeyman seamen
02 master seamen
01 chirurgeon (and Iohannes' personal aide)
03 fighters
01 sergeant

Everyone is trained for combat, except for the chirurgeon, and as mariners, but the fighters and their leader are warriors first and seamen second. The fighters are particularly good archers, and have arbalests available, as well as bows for shooting fire arrows. They don't get much work as warriors, but are also sailors. There are weapons enough for all, and light armor, though this is rarely worn.

The Sanctum Mysterium is overcrewed, if you include everyone, allowing Iohannes to sail 24/7 (not done in period, for a variety of reasons). This is an extremely loyal, experienced and capable crew. Iohannes' two mates could themselves captain vessels, and might, were it not for various Flaws that keep them loyal to Iohannes and that make them less than desired elsewhere. The crew are well aware that Iohannes is some kind of wizard and either don't care or have reasons to like it that way; like anyone or anything associated with the water, they are not affected by Iohannes' Gift. They are affected by other people's Gifts.

By virtue of Intellego Mentem spells, Iohannes knows all about his crew and tends to choose men who fit in. He also doesn't mind taking on men that other captains might choose to avoid due to various Flaws, and he pays well. A few judiciously used ReMe spells smooth things over when needed, which is rare. Most of the crew always enjoys the benefits of various spells like Eyes of the Cat, Eyes of the Eagle, Balance of the Cat; Iohannes periodically casts these simple spells on Groups for Moon. Most of the crew will eventually Warp, but even in Mythic Europe, sailors tend not to live long enough for that to matter much.

The favored languages aboard ship are a mess of German and Lingua Franca. People speaking languages that default to German, or the melange of languages near Lingua Franca (romance languages, Arabic, Greek) can make themselves understood, especially about the ship, but the environment can provide practice xp in either German or Lingua Franca, the latter peaking at 3.

Other crew: Cats! They have the run of the ship. They are at least as fanatical as Iohannes about having a clean, tidy ship, and will hiss at anyone who is too dirty or who sullies their ship, even leaving things out of place. On rare occasions, they react poorly to a guest who is not dirty or untidy, and the crew believes such a man is unclean on the inside, and are appropriately wary. So is Iohannes. They also consider the cats lucky. See Lab section for more details.

More about the Ship

The hold is divided into four compartments, three of them small, which is not usual. Iohannes has done this to allow a separate space for sensitive cargo or passengers willing to pay the price to sleep there, rather than on deck, which is the norm for this period.

The area inside and underneath the sterncastle is the captain's quarters and is generally off limits except by invitation. The cats have their own entrance, and the ship's chirurgeon also enters at will, as part of his duties. The doorway to Iohannes' sanctum is flanked by ladders that lead to the castle deck; mountings in the main and castle decks allow the ladders either to be secured or removed. There is also a mounting for a pulley system on each side. The wood of the castle deck has been stained with a circle, divided into12 parts, each with simple but elegant symbol representing the signs of the zodiac, and a corresponding color. A rim surrounds that circle, also divided into 12 sections, with different symbols and colors; these are less obvious, but someone with some Christian Theology (or who is Jewish) will recognize that they represent the 12 tribes of Israel. A third rim surrounds that with even stranger symbols, twelve of them, but any magus will recognize these.

There is a small circle near the fore of the ship, not obvious because there is almost always a barrel on top of it. Any water in the circle has its salt removed. This is not an enchantment, but a Ring/Circle spell.

The ship has the usual capstan, windlass, and other equipment expected on a ship, but they have been made for the ship and partake of its quality. The cleanliness and orderliness of the ship becomes especially apparent on board. Things are where they need to be. There is an abundance of safety lines.

The decks have been made watertight, though the hatches to the hold sometimes drip.

Inner Sanctum

Iohannes' cabin and lab are beneath the castle. It is a small lab, almost not a lab at all, more like a library, reading room or chart room, but it is exquisitely comfortable and well-appointed, though there are things this lab cannot do. It contains maps, charts, a large desk that doubles as a work table, comfortable chairs, various perches for the cats, books, an astrolabe, an armillary sphere, a compass, various exotic nautical instruments, all kinds of other things. There is no room on the walls for decorations, because all of the wall space has been devoted to shelving and storage of one kind or another, or wall-space for charts and pictures that have a function, from floor to ceiling, in the manner of a latter-day sitting room rather than a warehouse, everything made from the finest materials, like the rest of the ship only more so. The ceiling of the lab has the same circle as the castle deck.

There is a small antechamber between the lab and the outside, used for storage and where the chirurgeon sleeps. The door from the antechamber opens onto a landing or gallery that surrounds the perimeter of the lab. From here it is possible to look down onto the main floor of the lab, lower than the deck and thus more stable. A safety rail of burnished wood runs along the gallery. Ladders built into the hull along the sides and backl lead to the lab floor.

Iohannes' cabin opens onto the antechamber but not the landing, and is tastefully appointed, but small. A ladder leads from the cabin to the lab floor.

Sliding doors separate the rooms from each other and from the deck; each door is set into the wall 6 inches above the deck to prevent water running along the deck into the cabin when the door is open during a storm. Each doorway has been artfully carved. (Completely not obvious: The left doorpost of each door has a mezuzah (a biblical text ritually set on parchment by a Jewish scribe, as per the commandment) embedded in it with magic. There is no obvious external marker; only Iohannes knows it's there. This is also true of the doorways to the hold compartments, and again, is not at all obvious, for it has been embedded into the wood by magical means. The game effect of this is left wide open.) All of the inner walls are thick, as though they were load-bearing.

In general, the lab's characteristics revolve around the constraints imposed upon Iohannes by his ship, and the money he makes because he has a ship. As usual, money is not an issue, but time is. Other than the Superior Construction, there isn't very much lab in the lab. There is less equipment than most labs,but it is very good.

Game Stats, because... well, because I own Covenants!
Idyllic Surroundings (Iohannes thinks so anyway; what could be more idyllic than a lab with water all around? More soothing than the sounds of a ship and motion of the sea?) +2 Health, +1 Aesthetics, +1Aq
Mobile (It's a ship, though the benefit does nothing for Iohannes) +1 Experimentation
Superior Construction +1 Safety, +1 Aesthetics
Unstable (It's still a ship!) +1 Upkeep, -1 Safety
Poorly Insulated (The walls are thick and made of the finest wood, but it's still a ship! Also, see below) -1 Safety, -1 Aesthetics
Highly Organized (like everything aboard) +1 GQ
Servant (the chirurgeon) +2 Safety, +1 Aesthetics, +1 Me
Spotless (like everything aboard, only more so) +1 Health, +1 Aesthetics, +1 Cr
Flawless Equipment (It's just money) +2 GQ, +2 Upkeep, +2 Vis
Precious Ingredients (It's just money, but the "copious quantities of gold and gems" described for Priceless Ingredients doesn't have the right feel) +1 GQ, +2 Upkeep, +1 Longevity
Basic (Iohannes has put together an exquisite jewel of a lab, but hasn't really used it as a lab yet. He needs to devote some time to the lab.) -3 GQ
Missing Equipment *2 (It's a small lab, beautiful but limited; no experimentation, longevity potion (Iohannes expects his parens to do this for him), or items) -2 Upkeep
Undecorated (This lab is comfortable, even luxurious, but everything here has a purpose known to Iohannes; that is a kind of beauty in itself, especially since Iohannes has some wonderful things from around the known world, tastefully organized, but this leaves no room for inspiration bourne by flights of fancy) -1 Upkeep, -1 Aesthetics, reduce good specializations
Lesser Horde (Cats!! They have the run of the ship but live in the lab. The first cat boarded the ship with Iohannes, which surprised him because cats usually hate him. Soon there were more. Sometimes the cats evict one or more of their number.

(Iohannes has tried InAn to communicate with the cats, but they seem very much to be cats, though smarter, with catlike moods and interests, which do not include an inclination to explain Their ways to Man, even with InAn (the cats say "meow.") They have learned to tell when a spell is about to be cast on them, and try to get out of the way. Iohannes will almost never cast a spell on a cat, and will ask first; it's just polite. Iohannes knows the cats are smarter than usual, have abilities beyond normal cats, and even seem to understand what is said around or to them, but ultimately have animal intelligence, acting mostly from instincts that have been supernaturally honed. The crew mostly thinks otherwise.

(The cats almost always do catlike things and hardly ever take decisive actions in a completely uncatlike way. Otherwise, it's rarely clear how they help out. But things tend to go especially well when they're around. Sometimes a cat will rub up against the next thing Iohannes needs, or sleep on something that he ought not reach for, or even distract him in a surprisingly beneficial way. When Iohannes is not around, sometimes things are slightly rearranged when he gets back. Perhaps a book is turned to a different page, or a different chart has been unrolled. A cat--not necessarily the same one--will often accompany Iohannes when he is reading (but not on his rounds about the ship; they have their own rounds), and will stay with the book should he walk away, sometimes setting a paw where Iohannes left off; they'll do this in mundane endeavors too, sometimes even act in concert, which is how Iohannes first noticed. Most often, the cats are... cats, except that they don't mark their territory or scratch everything up.

(Iohannes has some ideas about how the cats improve things. Maybe things go well because the cats share their luck! Maybe the same way there isn't a rat to be found aboard the Sanctum Mysterium because the cats hunt them down ruthlessly, so do the cats also hunt down the evil spirits of the sitra achra that gnaw like rats upon the harvest of human possibility, leaving the world in a state of deprivation that people have come to take for granted. Maybe it's just the cats' natural sense of tidiness and rightness of things. Iohannes believes all these are true yet are not the whole of it.)
+1 GQ, +1 Upkeep, +1 Safety, +1 Aesthetics, +1 Re

Iohannes also has the following minor enchantments bought from superior craftsmen to make his life comfortable (or, alternatively, Iohannes has simply created them by casting some minor Ring/Circle spells on tiny circles, drawing the circles in a way that will not break them (such as a Re(Mu)X spell that lets him etch with his fingertip, or with durable paint or stain); these spells will last a long, long time):
Magical Heating (a brazier) +1 Health, +1 Aesthetics, +1 Ig
Magical Lighting (a small lamp) +1 Aesthetics, +1 Texts, +1 Im
(He suspends both items from the center of the circle on the ceiling)

Iohannes has created two or three portholes without compromising the hull, by making the material within the circle of the porthole transparent to species in one direction, so that the sensations of being outside can enter the lab, sights, scents and sounds, maybe even the taste of salt in the air--but not actual stormy winds and such. This makes the lab less well insulated, hence the flaw, but for Iohannes far more Idyllic. He can also see what's happening outside when he wants.

The cats enter through a circle on the wall with a Muto spell that makes it immaterial to cats. Iohannes can similarly look through the wall of his cabin into the lab.

Iohannes collects Arcane Connection to places. He places them in small containers made in that place or from other materials of that place, and each container has the place name written on it in Latin, German and Hebrew. Iohannes does not fix these ACs, and collects a new item every time he visits. He intends to commission a magic item to help him solve the problem of longitude and otherwise knowing location. (This can be done in many ways, including Divine Heaven's Aspect, which ought to provide both latitude and longitude (or at least the precise information needed to make the calculation), spells that point to known locations (like ReHe "locate a plant"), and so on). Iohannes can spont various spells of this kind; he is thinking about learning them or having the items crafted, and use it on objects from known locations to get more a more precise measure of the size of the Earth using basic Euclidean geometry, unless some other magus has already done this. Probably after he improves his Artes Liberales. He got the idea early in his career as a mariner, when he saw his first compass and wondered why so few sailors use them. Iohannes soon grasped the possibilities of having a compass that could point to locations other than north, and otherwise using magic to further simplify navigation. Iohannes hasn't told anyone about his idea yet; he likes the idea of discovering something. These ACs are not enchanted, but I note it here.

-3 Size (small lab)
+0 Refinement (the basics)
+2 General Quality
+3 Upkeep (easily within Iohannes' means)
+2 Safety (a larger margin of error than is useful, but that's in line with everything Iohannes does; not cautious, but... ready)
+0 Warping
+4 Health (the crew doesn't have it so good)
+5 Aesthetics (this feels weird, but maybe it just captures the whole "gentleman's lodge" feel of the place)
Specializations: +1 Aq, +1 Me, +1 Cr, +1 Re, +1 Vis, +1 Texts

double post

As if one wasn't big enough.

V may have to excuse himself from the ship. He boarded under a misunderstanding of the nature of the invitation.

(Any wishing to exit with him are welcome, under the limitations discussed earlier regarding multiple flying staves under V's control.)

Hi,

Hmm. Not that much of a misunderstanding, iirc:

Maybe an IC conversation about the whole sanctum thing? Iohannes and Vispilius have known each other for a year at this time.

We can have a thread dedicated to an IC conversation that occurred, say, during the evening before departure, so that any magus who wants to can participate.

Unless Vispilius is concerned that Iohannes might want to suddenly attack, he might see some advantages to himself in Iohannes maintaining the ship as sanctum, even though he is aboard. (Though, as I note OOCly in the link to a previous post, Iohannes is quite willing to restrict his sanctum boundary while other magi are aboard. I really don't feel a need to have the other players worry or feel slighted by this kind of thing. As for Iohannes...)

In any case, the conversation might make for some good roleplaying.

Anyway,

Ken

Hi,

I thought about this on my way home, and I'm quite happy to retcon a clarification that while the other magi are aboard, Iohannes does not consider the entire ship his sanctum. OOCly, I said that Iohannes would do that if other magi were uncomfortable. (Indeed, that's why there are layered markers.)

I know that it's the kind of conflict that can be played out IC, with magi separating, but it's more fun playing together--and I see how everyone being in Iohannes sanctum might create an uncomfortable environment for other players. OOC, I really don't want that. I'm a fan of doing things IC where possible, but I am beginning to see this as possibly belonging OOC.

Anyway,

Ken

Yep, that's there - don't remember it, but it's there. But look at the date - that was, what, 6 weeks ago? And during heart of the holidaze. I may have been sufferering from tryptophan poisoning or something!

But yes, a dedicated public/guest area "non-sanctum-ized" would be acceptable.

V is Tytalus, and is accustomed to looking at things a bit skeptically. Murphy's law and all that. IF Iohannes wanted to go mental, there is little recourse, both re the Code and practically speaking - I mean, if he invokes his right to throw us out, it's not like most can walk home. :wink:

Part of this is not really the fear of attack so much as the IC/cultural connotations of being in another's sanctum overlong.

That said it makes the most sense to me for a Magi ship captain to have the whole ship declared sanctum, legally speaking. You almost have to, to be safe.

I think Scipio would settle for some sort of written compact ( Do we have a charter? ) stating Iohannes grants travel/passenger rights to his coven-mates... and cedes the right to slay them as long as they don't violate the inner areas of the ship. Something we can either assume happened or negotiate about in the 'preparation day' thread. That thread is still ongoing, however I'm waiting on more input as I believe I'm the most recent poster. ( Our second thread I believe it's called. )

Your point about reciprocal escalation of violence is valid... and probably rather more so with a Tremere. So I think for Scipio it is more the cultural aspect. Going into another Magi's sanctum, other perhaps than one's parens, is something one 'just doesn't do' for a variety of reasons. Less so on a ship though. There are some mitigating factors in that, but at the same time... it should be clear to all exactly how much we are bending the rules and expectations therein.

Hi,

A few quotes:

And:

nod Once again, I propose our creating a thread for a conversation about this IC. I think it would be fun to have a Tremere, Tytalus and... well, Iohannes :slight_smile: start with sanctum and proceed to have an interesting conversation that highlights their respective personalities, philosophies, traditions... you know, the roleplaying thing.

Anyway,

Ken

Well put, that is a big part of it, far more than any practical OOC concerns about Player-on-Player attacks.

OOC, I easily tire of "Player Characters" ignoring the culture of the Hermetic Order, hand waving at longstanding tradition. It ignores the mindset that almost surely haunts every mage, and has for centuries.

Vispilius squints judiciously at the sky, then spits.

"Aye, it's zombie weather right enough. Might rain brimstone afore we're thru, too!"
:laughing:


Ok, enough OOC in the IC.

I'd be up for an IC discussion, a side thread, "out of time" as it were. If nothing else, it'd keep us busy, and better know each other IC. Readya there.

Er, um... the kitchen?

Oops. Needed something bitesized, and that image jumped to mind.

Will edit.

OOC, just curious - how did I. know that V was bringing anything on board? :confused:

Vispilius has difficulty seeing through Iohannes' fog, but Iohannes can see Vispilius quite clearly, and if he's carrying a piece of the other ship that is bigger than a hand, he can see that too, and possibly that he is carrying something. In any case, if Vispilius is flying back to the ship, Iohannes will see him very clearly as he gets close, since Iohannes is aft. Iohannes might not now what Vispilius is carrying, but if it looks like he has something he says what he says.

While he's invisible?!

I know he has Second Sight, but it's hardly automatic.

If you're going to insist on quoting everyone in your posts "for reference", then at least do refer to that information when you post, please.

However, you can relax, and stop worrying about how to slip OOC knowledge to Iohannes. Since, when either he arrives or his invisiblity spell wears off he has ~nothing~ visible in his hands, I'm going to assume that Iohannes never said that.

In the future I'll try to handle such posts privately, so there's no confusion.

On an indirectly related note...

V has no Lores whatsoever, not Infernal, not Faerie, not Magical, squadoosh. So, he's not going to offer or even jump to a lot of Sherlock-Holmesian deductions in this storyline, because the character just doesn't have a clue, in character.

But ~I~ have an idea or two, based on my own meta-knowledge of those Lores. Should I suggest such, or should I wait for a more appropriate IC moment? See if others make similar conclusions, get similar ideas, etc? Or suggest it here, OOC?

Also, would the information V provide be adequate for "their names", or would we need their full christening name? On one hand, they were well known as "Lord X", so that is a "nickname" of sorts, but that's hardly their actual name...

Am I the only one who thinks this is something we don't want the Q's to hear about?

Preferably they don't hear about it. But I was clearly trying to summon spirits and getting a demon by accident is a known risk...
But best not to worry them

:wink: A reaction I fully understand. I was just wondering what the 'norm' perception of that would be. i.e. I don't want to run around screaming 'Infernalist!' if it's not IC... just like I don't want to 'pshah' something as being nothing if it, well, is more than nothing.

If I WAS planning to summon a demon , I would have done so where you were not watching.