OOC: preplay discussion

Retired Play by Post Campaigns Ars Magica 5th Edition: In the Ruins of Bibracte
81

I hope I didn't accidentally give the impression that I (or any of us) feel that you're not doing your share. This is actually a weakness (if you want to call it that) of mine, in that I want everything to be just right...and all too often, if I want something done right (or at all), I have to do it myself. This is actually something that gets mentioned in pretty much all my performance reviews at work, that I tend to do too much myself and don't delegate. Plus, being a writer, I have an advantage with characters that change direction mid-plot – I can always go back and rewrite to make it fit; I don't have that luxury in rpg...once the character's made, she stays made.

See, now, that actually works for me. The correspondence thing, I mean. Perhaps two or three years, Apollodorus sent her a letter letting her know that he will soon be founding a covenant (perhaps exclusively of Master Magi, if not Archmagi), perhaps some correspondence back and forth to determine what rights/responsibilities she would have (and not have), and perhaps some of the things he mentions start to show her how bunged up Insula Canaria is ([color=blue]"Wait...do you mean that the Council isn't supposed to be able to nix your lab projects?") And then when she gets that letter from her uncle, that pretty much seals the deal for her.

Sorry...never mind me...just brainstorming here :slight_smile:

82

Thanks for the generous thoughts, Jonathan. I'm doing okay with my part - very happy to create magus, companion, 4 grogs, and 250+75 of the covenant - but then, I have some time on my hands, and love doing this stuff. I'm also fine with you stepping in any of that, if you prefer. But not required from my end.

This sounds like fun! I really enjoyed the first letter from Apollodorus - it really helps me to start imagining the world we're going to be in, start getting into character, and so on. So the more of this, the better, as far as I'm concerned!

As I sort of indicated in my character backstory, I'm imagining Iosephus as having had some sort of Visions, Premonitions, and so on, that indicate that Bibracte is where he needs to be - and then, as if by coincidence, the first letter from Apollodorus arriving, inviting him there. So they could totally have further correspondence over a few years, sorting things out.

Worth noting that since Iosephus a weird Criamon mystic with a... erm.. unique take on the world, and Communication -3, correspondence from him mightn't be as clear as the businesslike Jerbiton might would like... Like most Criamon, he's fond of everything cryptic and arcane....

83

Call it a combination of things, the slower pace of development, qcipher's suggestion re: covenant development based on his experience, and my genereal inexperience with the PBP environment. In RL, I'd have a better sense of the players and the things I'm asking of them. In my pitch to start this game, I figured it would limit who responded, based on the type of game I was proposing. I'm just ensuring that I'm not going crazy. I'm answering questions as they arise. Right now, I have time to kill. Starting later this month and into September, I'm going to be busier at work. I'd like to have things moving along the story by that time. In some ways that will be easier to manage. I didn't take any one thing into consideration, although I did quote you, it wasn't my impression to suggest your comments was the cause of my self-doubt. Kinda the last piece of the puzzle, if you will.

Go ahead and start a thread, quote the Apollodorus letter from the GM Looking for Players forum for this game I suggest the topic be Fiona's Letters to Apollodorus. Write a letter back. Date it as far back as you wish (up to 5 years previous) and we'll correspond to present. Apollodorus' letters won't have dates, it'll be up to you to advance the date, but figure no more than two letters per year to be exchanged. Say you received the invitation in the spring, responded in the summer, he replied in the fall, then you again in the winter. So, there can be a substantial amount of information passed through letters. Questions asked both ways. This applies to any players who wish to do this step. It's not at all necessary. Of course, since this is an RPG, good RPG is rewarded, albeit it may not be much.

84

OK, since my initial concerns were brought up again with the latest turns in discussion, you might then do something that I ended up doing at the end in order to move things along.

First, there were certain elements of the Covenant that I as the GM built, simple as that. That kept mystery and allowed me to develop stories easier.

Second, deadlines and assignments. I'd say we're all decently creative, but creativity without boundaries leads to slow and non-results. You have given tentative assignments, clarify that to actual assignments: "Make 4 Grogs, 2 craft based and 2 combat based is the preferred mix, and have them turned in by 8/15". Something like that. We, the players, will produce then, having deadlines and assignments adds to the motivation.

Third, break down the Covenant creation that you're having us do some more. This goes to assignments again. Instead of having us each do 250 points, maybe have each of us do an aspect of the Covenant, an aspect that you want the players to create and you not create (that takes away the ambiguity of us stepping into GM territory, you could say "Design the library and vis, but any permanent mystical effects and items are mine"). One does the Location hooks, boons, and points. Another spends the points for the library, another the vis, another the generic turb of grogs. I'd suggest the Hooks for the most part that are story related be done by the GM. You can also say "I have chosen 13 points in Hooks, you may pick 7 points in Boons (I've decided the other Boons), and may take up to 3 more Hooks per my approval to buy more boons with." Instead of assigning this, have us volunteer for what you think needs to be done (vis, library, grogs, location, etc). Let us take care of that aspect, we'll do our own conversations building it, and then can submit what we have for your final approval.

As we communicate with each other in our various roles, we'll no doubt start meshing the covenant together more. Doing it this way might get the condensing effect that all of us sitting around the table with the Ars Books pitching ideas over a couple of nights generally does.

If you're concerned, I'd suggest these ideas be put into place and see if that not only moves things along, but meets the story elements you're looking for. When my game folded I basically decided that if I were to try running one again I'd create the Covenant myself and leave only a few points for the PCs, or take a more direct hand in having them build it. Kind of like a team project at college or the workplace. Structure and definied roles and deadlines helps a lot I think.

Just throwing that out there.

85

I hope I didn't come off as pushy right there...

86

I snipped everything, because, well, it was a lot :smiley: These are all great suggestions. The last thing I wanted to do was to get "bossy" since we are all adults (I'm presuming, no one's written like what I woul consider a typical teenager[1]).
I was hoping that the covenant creation process would create additional story opportunities creating some elements of internal conflict as people built resources for their interpretation of the covenant as they saw it, or were told about it via correspondence.
How's this sound. I want to know by next Thursday, 8/18, what your plans for the allocation of build points is going to be, all 325 assigned to you, and broken out as covenant and personal. This also means some additional added work beyond the build points. If you intend to create grogs for certain jobs, and not use build points, great. At least have names and job descriptions and a rough range of age, skills etc. If you don't have them available at a point where they become necessary, such as a Princep has to talk to them and you'd indicated you'd create them outside of the build points, I'll end up creating them and some of your resources will be missing (my discretion). I'd like this done ahead of any character advancement or development currently in process. In fact, I think it may shape your development, and may end up being useful to you in the end, knowing what your character has in store for him/her. I'm assuming we're generally advanced players and can predict with some degree of precision where our characters will end up given the rules I've laid out so far. Max's Verditus is the most challenging due to the items he's going to be creating[2].
Boons and hooks are more challenging for me to decide about now. I'll write more about this later. I may need to exercise some authority here, considering how I see things going in this saga. I'll post something later tonight or tomorrow.

Footnotes
[1]If you are a teenager, do not take offense, you are well written and articulate to the point I consider you an adult, and you don't present yourself as a teenager.

[2]Max, as far as I'm concerned you can skip item creation as part of your character creation (and make them after play commences) as long as you have your character advanced to the points he'll manufacture items, and can note the points where he created each item during his career to date. That's an issue that you and I can work out without slowing down the saga as a whole.

87

Yes, but in a good way! :laughing:

88

Ok good. In a team setting I often end up helping to get things moving, what tends to happen is there is too much overlap and/or assumption about who is doing what. A little structure I think focuses the creative process and doesn't stifle it, plus it will tend to lead in ways beneficial to the one running it.

89

So here are the guidelines.
A castle without the hook is fine, which means it goes into a regio. I don't want the castle hook, the political stories are too intense, both from a mundane and Hermetic perspective. This is up to the players, I'm not forcing it one way or another.
No fairie related hooks or boons. It doesn't appear that any of the players are interested in fairie stories, given the characters presented.
It's perfectly reasonable to owe or be owed favors. These would represent services Apollodorus has promised or has been or has promised others for assistance in getting the covenant setup. He's an accomplished host, and is rumored to be close friends of Andru, Jerbiton Primus.
Here are the Hooks, pick boons to balance, an additional major hook (or 3 minor) may be selected, as well, with corresponding boons to match. Any boons that add build points will be allocated by me. Avoid picking illusory resources as a hook, unless you also added one or more corresponding boon(s) adding resources. In the event illusory resource is selected, I'll be distributing these across any bps I allocate and items from the 250 bps players allocated.
Hermetic Services (Major): most of the parchment produced goes to OoH users and it is generally prized so even if people are upset based on the politics of the covenant, it will still be in demand, but there could be "accidents" or sales have to go further afield. So far most parchment has been sold directly and locally, without involving Mercere in trades. If Mercere needs to facilitate trades (not just delivery) profits will go down, slightly

Tribunal Border (Major): There is another covenant to the south, in the same Tribunal, but Provencal and Great Alps (due to Apollodorus' friendship to Andru) are all interested in what's going on. This will create a lot of political issues related to the formation of a new covenant in this location. Additionally, there's the Lotharingian Tribunal issue, put it all together and you've got politics related to border issues. Note, Apollodorus has been less than forthcoming about this possibility. Additionally vis sources you create or have me create are heretofore unknown until Apollodorus registers them with Redcaps. This alone will create a stir when its' found that Apollodorus has enough resources to finance such a large covenant (6 total magi).

With the exception of the Tribunal (whichever it's decided to attend or, attend all three with different representatives?) and story flaws, most activity will take place in or about the covenant for quite some time.

90

As much as i would love to, i dont seem to have as much time on hand as most of you guys. So please bear with me for not keeping pace with your development of the saga.
I am working hard on finishing Silviatos, my magus, as soon as possible. I will also work on my build point allotment and i should certainly get that done till the 18th.
I am not too keen on developing 4 grogs or even more to save build points. I will happily pitch in some build points to have a decently running covenant with an autocrat, a teacher, a grog seargent, a book binder, a scribe, etc., whatever we need. Just tell me how many build points i shall reserve for that.
Creating a whole micro-cosmos now in advance, with Edna, the big-bossomed cooking woman that has a soft side for young rabble-rousers etc.,etc.,etc. is not what i am looking for, i think its sufficient if those things develop over time. Of course i dont wanna stop anyone of you from doing stuff like that if your having fun with it, just saying i wont contribute in as much detail.

I liked many of Jonahs suggestion for our covenants boons and hooks in the other thread, if we take the 2 major hooks and add 3 more of his proposed minor hooks we could take most of the boons and have a nice covenant. I will post in the other thread which boons i favor.

91

I'm good with letting things developing organically over time. I have a potential compromise, and this is for everyone, and in the interest in moving things forward. My suggestion for you is to select one or two specialists who you think are most important to your character or you as a player are interested in, either one. Name them, give them a concept, describe some of their abilities. If you think they could endup in play (autocrat, sheild grog, trader, maybe the librarian?) claim them that you plan to build them, when time permits, or when I tell you they'll end up in play soon. You can build them as needed. If you can't build them for some reason when they're needed, something will happen (a book is damaged in the library, an item breaks). I think this is a fair compromoise. You can lay claim grog concepts that you think might be fun to play, and become responsible for their development. If you don't develop them later for some reason, there's a consequence that you'll feel at a later date.

If you have no intention of running certain types of characters, use build points. I'm sure no one wants to run a shepherd, I can certainly see that, but if you intend to manage a large sheep ranch, you need one. Perhaps the percamenarius is not at all interesting to anyone either, so he should be built with build points. This isn't Harn, so I'm not at all interested in running an economic simulation of life as a middle ages parchment manufacture, and you probably aren't interested in that, either. If no one uses build points to select a necessary character or develops them fully as a grog, I'll build him as an SG and have players subtract bps from their totals equally, which could be probematic, but hey no one did it, so everyone pays equally. A nature magus might have an interest in managing the growing end of a winery. Someone else might be interested in being the vintner and managing the tasks related to aging and transport/sales. And some players don't want to to play anything but their magus.

Sound fair?

92

Works for me.

On a unrelated note, can I just say how much I'm enjoying reading everyone else's letters? Fiona, Alexei - those letters are really great. it's such an excellent way to start imagining the characters - top idea. Very funny, too. Alexei is a hoot. :smiley: :smiley:

93

Thank you, I'll be here all Winter. Try the mutton!

94

Just confirming a common house rule:

When you raise an ability, and only then, you can change its specialty. Ok?

Theres no way written in the rulebook how to change a specialty, but else any skill you learn before becoming an apprentice cant ever have a hermetic specialty.

95

I'd never had issues of changing specialties, but it seems reasonable.
Before I confirm this, is there a specific ability you're thinking of? I can't think of many skills that would change to a specficially hermitic specialty of the top of my head.

96

This applies both to something like Concentration (if you take it before you become an apprentice, you cant choose "spell concentration") and magic theory (specializing in "invent spells" at first to get +1 on starting spells but later on "familiar" or "enchanted items" that i would favor more in the long run).

Another GM brought this on when i wanted to have Folk ken bought with early childhood xps but specialize in "magi". He reasoned i could not do that since my 4-year old character knew nothing about magi. But i could take the specialization if i raised the skill later on, after becoming an apprentice.

As i said, the biggest "shenanigans" i would pull off would be to get +1 for starting spells and then later raise magic theory and specialize on "familiar" and then again on "echanted items".

97

Concentration, got it. That's about the only one I could think of. It's entirely reasonable.

As far as Magic Theory goes. Well, if someone wants to munchkin that...wow. Since we're dealing with 30 years past gauntlet for characters, I don't consider it an issue. That and rasiing an ability is an incredibly expensive proposition once it gets past 4, it takes a lot of effort and committment. On the same hand, I can see as to how that might be a reason to constantly change specializations as one advances early on...

98

Designing a spell for feature invention, does this work? I don't have my book with me now.

A spell to swiftly don armour

ReTe (An, Co) 10

R: Touch D: Momentary T: Individual

Touch the suit of armour and it will swiftly move to envelope the intended wearer and adjust to fit securely and properly in a moment of time rather than the several minutes it usually takes to put on armour.

Base 2 (+2 more for affecting metal) +1 Range, +1 Requisites (Animal is necessary for the straps and fastenings, Corpus so it is put on properly and fitted right).

Would you say the level is right for this?

99

I'm inclined to think that the base level would be 3 ("Control or move dirt in a very unnatural fashion") after looking at some of the other spells in the book. Level 2 seems to be a slower movement, while the quicker movements are 3. The increases for affecting metal and for Range are right. I don't know that I would add a magnitude for the Animal requisite, since that's a requisite that "simply allows the spell to have its effect." I also wouldn't throw in a Corpus requisite, either, since the spell is affecting the armor, which doesn't normally have Corpus. On the other hand, maybe they make armor out of human hide in your neck of the woods, dunno :laughing:

But yeah...that would make the final level 5...wait, I just thought of something. You're probably going to have a Corpus to raise the armor-wearer off the floor to slide the leggings up over his feet. Gah, why did I have to think of that? I was all set to mention that, if you upped the range to Voice (+2) and made the level 15, you could have a really awesome Tony Stark visual. So...um...yeah...that didn't help a whole lot, did it? :smiley:

100

It would have to be fast, maybe even unnatural, as in materializing around the person, so that would raise it even higher then, like 15-20. What's teleporting an item's base? Would it require Finesse also do you think?