OOC: preplay discussion

Anything that doesn't fit the covenant discussion can go in here until play is started.

Could you explain what you mean by the Aegis having to Penetrate? If it works like I'm thinking it would, that would greatly lower its power and effectiveness.

The Aegis has a warding effect. If you want to keep out that creature with 20, 30 or more Magic Might you'd better be able to penetrate that.

So if we cast an Aegis of 20 (the minimum for a Ritual), the Aegis would be useless in the first place against anything with a MIght higher than a 20, and against anything else, say a 15, we need to have a Penetration of 16+ or it is also useless. So it behooves us to always at least match the Penetration to the level of the Aegis.

How does it affect Magi and their spell casting? If it penetrates their Vim (I assume Vim) Magic Resistance, does it have the normal effect of halving their spell casting rolls? If it doesn't Penetrate then it has no effect?

What about spells or magical/divine/infernal/fae effects trying to cross the Aegis from the outside to the inside? How does the Aegis penetrate that, or does it not need to?

Yes. It certainly does. It makes Wizar'ds communion an important spell (and I'm subscribing to the errata that says WC has to have a duration as long as the spell it's affecting, Sun duration is sufficient in my mind, otherwie, you need vis for the Aegis, vis for the WC and that botch is gonna be murder).

It could concievably blow their parma down, low level spells they have operating, etc. It resists spell casting as advertised

Spells will be resisted as the rules indicate. Regardless of realm, if the Aegis penetratees the might, it's not coming through. Does that make sense?

I was going to say, WC must be how the big covenants do it.

So a foreign wizard could potentially lose any active enchantments, would they be suppressed or actually shut off? And whether it penetrates or not, it still lowers their spell casting total by half the ritual's level.

Actually I'm not clear on this part. The RAW state that an outside spell must Penetrate the Aegis just like Magic Resistance, is that still the same?

Also assuming that a creature did make it into the Aegis (by having a higher Might and/or the Aegis failing to Penetrate), then it will not have its powers lowered (a Creature loses half the Aegis from its Penetration totals). Because in the RAW a creature that can get into the Aegis by having a higher Might, still has its Penetration lowered once inside.

Magic items are still affected the same way?

With the casting of the Aegis can the different methods of Penetration be used to specifically protect against certain creatures? So if we have a fixed Arcane Connection against a creature that's been bothering us, when casting it can we make the casting more effective against it, and just as generically effective against others?

But at the end of the day...if the Aegis penetrates, it works just as RAW, right?

Question regarding this enchantment on Alexei's Talisman

I was thinking about this, my goal is for him to be able to switch spear heads as needed, but keep the spear heads non-magic so they don't have to worry about penetration. But if the enchantment is on for Diameter, would that make the spear head magic?

If so, I'd likely need to modify it, such as making the Duration Momentary which fixes it on as if crafting magic, or maybe changing the Target to Part (the mounting base of the spear head) thus keeping the blade non-magical.

Or am I over thinking this?


Yes, it must be able to penetrate the level of the Aegis. Still the same

See, the Aegis has two effects, the warding effect, and the effect that reduces the power of spells cast within it. The warding effect needs to penetrate. The other effect exists, and affects magic worked within the borders of the Aegis (because magic has no innate resistance).


Sure. However, there's a lot of cost of time involved in that, I don't see why it wouldn't work.

That's exactly how I interpret it. The warding effect of the Aegis must penetrate the might of the creature being warded. If it doesn't, then it may enter the Aegis. Any creature or person not part of the Aegis ritual who doesn't have a token is always subject to the spell casting effects of the Aegis. Spells cast into the Aegis must be able to penetrate the Aegis.
Clear as mud?

Yeah that clears things up. I was initially concerned that the rule wasn't considering all of the aspects and effects of the Aegis. But it seems that the main thing it does that's different is the need to Penetrate to bar entry and the bonus of if it Penetrates it can drop a Magus's active spells and enchantments. It seems that it both loses and gains some power in that respect.

Warding, like MR is one of those topics in Ars that can be endlessly discussed. But, it's clear to me now.

Wards are definitely something Alexei should consider, especially with his Flaws.

I don't want to interrupt the Aegis discussion, but a quick totally unrelated query - does anyone have any good ideas for long-distance communication spells? Thought it might be a good idea to have one. Good for staying in the loop with the rest of the characters.

Looking at this, it's problematic. I haven't designed your Talisman in MetaCreator yet.
If the effect is diameter, then magic is affecting the spear head to keep it affixed, and so it is magical, and subject to resistance.
I think the effect may be too low for 10th level. You're affecting metal in an unnatural way which also needs to be accounted for.

So the Base might be 3 (affect Dirt in an unnatural way), +2 more for metal +5 for Touch, I'll drop Duration to Momentary (meaning he has to actually remove it physically or with magic), and keep the amount of uses per day to what it is. Still a level 13 effect, which uses the same amount of Vis and is well within his lab total. Dropping the uses per day might make sense also, but it probably wouldn't save any vis, he'd likely want to do it more than once or have the option.

Will that work and provide the intended effect? Then, the next time Alexei is in the lab making a ReTe effect, if he has a good lab total, he should try to make a quick spell specifically to remove the spear head so he doesn't have to keep doing it spontaneously. I don't want to have to devote more vis to removing the spear head.

Yes, that works for me.

Working on the Daughters of Circe ex Misc lineage. I'm really liking the idea of their Minor Hermetic Virtue being Minor Magical Focus: Transformation. Reason I think it would be Minor as opposed to Major is that Major is smaller than a single Art but may be spread over several, while Minor is slightly narrower than a single TeFo (in this case, MuCo with requisites, e.g. Animal, Herbam, or Terram). It gives Self-Transformation as a sample Minor Focus, but the DoC's focus is strictly on transformation of others, which I think would be a good equivalent.

Yea? Nay? Need more input?

(btw, the Major Hermetic Flaw would probably be Rigid Magic, and can't use vis in spell-casting. Still working on the Major Non-Hermetic Virtue, but I've got a pretty good idea.)

I like it. This is exclusively for transforming others, right?

Oy! That's a rough one.

Right. She only gets the advantage of the Focus when she's transforming others. Self-transformation goes like normal.

And I'm thinking that, to do the whole transforming potion thing, that would be simply creating single-use magic items, if I'm remembering right.

Yeah, but it's the only one that I have access to that I can make fit my concept of the Daughters of Circe lineage. On the plus side, since the DoC is a fairly recent addition to the order (I'm thinking only two generations back), it shouldn't affect that many magae.

Erk! Having just uploaded the first version of my Muto-specialist's sheet, the thought occurs to me: I hope I'm not suddenly coming in and copying your transformation shtick! If so, let me know and I'll do something else - after all, you were first.

A positive thought: my guy is fairly focussed on self-transformation. If your gal is going to be a bit more focussed on other-transformation, as you say, then maybe we could actually have a nice synergy going?

But let me know if you want me just to choose a new shtick, and I'll happily oblige.

Not a problem. Fiona's going to be almost exclusively transform-others (at least in that regard...don't want her to be a one-trick pony...or one-trick clydesdale as the case may be. Bwahahahaha!)

Onesiphorus Ex Verditius is beginning to form. The sub forum where his character sheet is where I intend to show how he progress from apprentice until he has passed 30 years. So please Jonah and qcipher remove your posts from the Onesiphorus Ex Verditius sub forum now that we have this ooc forum.

Concept: A wood carving magus who makes furniture, wands, staffs and other things made out of wood. (it is a bit thin but I am not sure where I want his mystical powers to focus, there are so many intriguing options…) I am fairly certain that he will be unable to cast any spontaneous magic.

Advancement: As I think that his magical items will reflect his growth as magus then I will write his as following.
• I will divide the 30 years into five years periods. Where I allocate seasons for study of arts, abilities, spells and then some for crafting magical items. This is so that all the items in his studio will not be made when he is at the peak of his power.
• Every 7 years he will gain one mystery virtue and spend a season teaching it to someone else.

Documentation: His character forum will contain the following posts.
• Onesiphorus Ex Verditius right out of apprenticeship
• Onesiphorus Ex Verditius 5 years as a magus
• Onesiphorus Ex Verditius 10 years as a magus
• Onesiphorus Ex Verditius 15 years as a magus
• Onesiphorus Ex Verditius 20 years as a magus
• Onesiphorus Ex Verditius 25 years as a magus
• Onesiphorus Ex Verditius 30 years as a magus
• Onesiphorus Ex Verditius Studio
• Onesiphorus Ex Verditius Laboratory
• Onesiphorus Ex Verditius advancement

Sounds good!