OOC: PrePlay discussion

I'm putting together a small library, vis stores and vis sources and some specialists. There are some hidden hooks/boons. Everyone will have 75 build points to spend.

I will go over status within Transylvania Tribunal in the furture.

@jebrick, what does a season of service buy for longevity rituals? So two seasons less xp gains what LR total? Two seasons of service, so 3 of no xp?

My character is almost ready, but when copying it here I realized I had made some assumptions, which of course lead to questions:

  1. Is there a guideline for the level of familiars, both in term of Might and in term of abilities ? RoP:M has some suggestions, but they depend on the power level of the saga in the first place, so that just changes the question. Or is it 'Whatever you can bind' ? Or maybe 'no limit, but has to be accepted by the Troupe' ?
  2. any rule on finding an exotic familiar, say a double headed eagle, or is it just 'whatever you can imagine' ?
  3. longevity rituals: how do we get one during character generation, and what level will it be if we go to a specialist ?
  4. What rules for a familiar learning abilities, during character generation or in play ? AM5 core rules (they learn as humans), RoP:M rules (in my experience they don't work very well for a familiar if the master has good access to vis, the familiar will just grow in magic powers very quickly while learning almost no new abilities), something else ?
  5. Muto Vim spells: there's the printed rules, then it was errated and the errata then errated again back to something close to the original. The last wording I'm aware of say a Muto Vim spell must last as long as the casting of the spell it modifies, and Momentary is enough for regular spells. Is that correct ?
  6. Is languages an appropriate specialty for teaching, or should I narrow it down to one specific language ?
  7. Any guideline on mundane possessions ? I'd love to start with a couple of chests worth of mundane books (less impressive in 1260 than it would be today, but that's still a lot of books).

#1& #2) I would allow what you could bind but it should pass the troupe. I've seen some crazy familiars in games and would not want the familiar to be too powerful. Over 20 might tends to be problematic.

#3 I've been thinking about this. If you can do it yourself you just need the vis. First, how much vis do you have. I will propose that every year past gauntlet you earn 2 pawns of vis. You can earn an extra 3 pawns by taking a season of lab work.

Buying a LR. (Normal vis cost you would pay) + (1 per mag up to 10) + 2 per mag from 11 to 15) +(3 per mag from 16-20) + 1 season
Example 35 year old Magus gets a 15th mag LR would be 7 + 10 + 10 or 27 pawns of vis + 1 season
A Magus with Waster of Vis would only add to the normal cost, not to the cost for the magnitudes of the ritual.
Magus with difficult LR pays the same for 1/2 the magnitude of effect.

#4 I will have to think about Familiars learning.

#5. MuVi Spells must last as long as the spell being cast. So Wizard's Communion for casting AoH must be of Sun duration. Mercurian Magic virtue, which get WC for free get it at Sun length.

#6 I will allow languages as a specialty for teaching.

#7 Use you build points to buy mundane books. I will assume that you will be moving your lab equipment so that will not have to be bought with BP

#1. Ok, I'll have to think about it. I'd actually like a high Might because I'm taking a Focus Power, and those are limited by the Might Score (unless they are improved with mastery points), but on the other hand I don't really need the additional Magic Qualities. I might look into Improved Might then : up the starting Might a little from the 10 I'm currently using, use it to buy Improved Might, and end up with a familiar with relatively High Might but limited powers. And I think I'll add some abilities, at the moment I've only the basic eagle abilities (taken from the Falcon in the Bestiary), the languages from being a familiar and Magic Theory from Arcane Lore.

#3 That's not a lot of vis. The rules actually allow MTx5 per year (non savable), but admittedly that's based on the premise that most years the magus won't spend any. I'm currently using 36 for my talisman (including 12 unused capacity), I spent 12 binding my familiar and 10 enchanting the bond. That's... 58 before the longevity ritual. I'd have to reduce my talisman's extra capacity for my LR :frowning:
I would like to see a little more, personally, if only to encourage players to create magic items (I could just as easily learn the spells I put in my talisman, in fact it would be easier, and it would cost no vis...). And 3 vis per season in the lab is low for advanced magi, anyone with a 21 CrVi Lab Total can do it. Most magi should be able to figure a valuable magic item they can sell in their best arts, create it, and sell it for even more profit.
Or maybe we can use our build points for extra vis ? Or is that too cheesy ?

The cost for buying a LR seems... okay, I guess, if on the high side. I love the increasing costs, actually, but the base cost does seem a little high. Here I can quote two pricing systems from extreme cases from the HoH books:

The first gives an example where the buyers are very organized (the Mercere House) and can get the best of the deals (many magi want to be on the Redcap's good side). It comes out at cost +1 vis / 10 levels. The second gives an example where the sellers are very organized (the Verditius House, where the Primus fixes the prices for enchantments), and are the best in the business. It comes out at cost +1 vis / 5 levels. Yours is priced according to the final level, which is nice, but is even more expensive that the Verditius version at higher levels...

#7: Ouch ! By those rules a copy of Aristotle's Physics (Philosophiae Summa L6Q12, A&A p.137) costs 30 build points, and according the Covenants p. 95 as a mundane book is worth one pound of silver (or 10, if you consider that it is actually comprised of 10 separate books), the cost to have it copied by a mundane scribe. And 10 pounds of silver is 1 build point. Of course, I don't have much else to spend my build points on, but still...

The 3 vis per season is working as a lab assistant for a vis wage. If you want to take seasons to make and item to sell we can talk about the price.

Reading further in the Mercere section that you quoted says the typical cost is 2p per mag. Mercere tend to overpay as well which is why their contracts are sought after.

How do you post an image on these forums? I have two ideal pictures of what Zoltan looks like, but I can't seem to add them. I click on the img link and can't add it.

You need to have the images stored in an accessible part of the Web, not on your computer (try tinypic.com if you don't have any already set, it's easy to use). Get the http link and put it inside the Img tags.You can also link to an image in a third-party web page (wikipedia for instance) but that is frowned upon, as they ultimately pay for the bandwith without the context.

Personally I use my personal web page (not that I ever got around to actually make one) from my ISP, but that requires some knowledge of ftp protocols to transfer images.

OK, I got them from Deviantart and downloaded them. I'll just add them direct from DA then.

For aging rolls and experiment rolls how do we make them? Can we just use invisible Castle?

InvisibleCastle is fine. Just post the link here.

while painting my dinning room I was thinking about the vis salary. I will propose this. first 10 years past gauntlet 3p per season. second 10 years will be 5p per season and the 3rd 10 years will be 7p per season. What do you think?

By vis salary you mean the vis earned for a season of dedicated work, right ? If so your numbers seem fair to me.

Referencing the civilization ranks you posted in the Transylvania Tribunal thread, what would the magi of Heviz rank at? Would they collectively be one rank, or each individually getting their own? I could see Zoltan considered Hospites, though I didn't take a virtue or flaw to provide rank (since he studies the dark fae, then the supernatural nuissance flaw he might represent that if he's expected to share his findings).

Each would have their own rank. No one is a Cives or Socii. You must decide if you want to take permanent residence in the Tribunal which would make you Coloniae. If not I expect Hospites ( doing contract work) or Foederati

Hmm, I think I would aim for Foederati for Diotima.

Hospites then would make sense for Zoltan, I would assume he'd need to write books and Tracti on faerie lore, perhaps have to give a lecture if that is the preferred medium (doubt it though).

So, I don't have AtD but I did some research:
Gyógytó means medicinal lake (Gyógy: medicinal, tó: lake) in Hungarian. The geothermal lake is named Hévízi-tó or Hévízi-gyógytó in Hungarian, lake Héviz in English. It's the second largest geothermal lake in the world, and the largest in Europe, with an area of 47,500 square meters (roughly equivalent to a disk 250 meters in diameter). It is about 5 miles (8 kilometers) from the city of Keszthely, which is on the western end of Lake Balaton (the largest freshwater lake in Central Europe).

History:

Part of the Roman Empire: 9 BC 440 AD
The area was incorporated as part of the Roman Empire and the province of Illyricum in 9 BC, under Roman Emperor Augustus. The whole province revolted in 6 AD; the rebellion was crushed in 9 AD by Tiberius and Germanicus and the province of Illyricum divided into two, Pannonia and Dalmatia. Héviz was part of Pannonia, then became part of Pannonia Superior, Pannonia Prima and the Diocese of Pannonia during the various political reorganization of the Empire. It was transferred to the Eastern Roman Empire in 425 and ceded to the Huns in 440 AD. The Roman Empire maintained a fort at Castellum (Kezthely)

Barbarians, barbarians, barbarians: 440 AD-1260 AD
Héviz was part of the Hun Empire under Attila from 440 AD to 454 AD, then devolved into local rule (perhaps under the Gepid or the Goths ?) before being conquered by Theoderic the Great, king of Ostrogothic Italy (and formally a vassal of the Byzantine Emperor), in the early sixth century. It was conquered by the Avars in the late sixth century, then conquered by the Franks under Charlemagne at the end of the 8th century. Finally it was conquered by the Magyars (Hungarians) in the 9th century. The mongols army reached the area in the winter of 1241-1242 but left in the spring of 1242, leaving the area devastated.

The Keszthely culture ca 500-700 AD
The Keszthely culture flourished ca. 500 - 700 by the Romanized residents of Pannonia who lived in the area of the fortified village of Castellum (now Keszthely), near Lake Balaton in now western Hungary, around the Roman castle of Fenékpuszta near Keszthely. They are noteworthy for their artifacts (mostly of gold) and for burying their dead adorned with jewellery and clothing of Byzantine origin. They paid tribute but were otherwise left undisturbed by the Avars until 626, when they supported the wrong claimant in a civil war. The castle was destroyed, but the culture survived. They spoke a distinct Romance Pannonian language. The culture was quickly absorbed into the culture of Western Christendom when the region was conquered by the Franks, and by the 10th century had disappeared.

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So it looks like this is actually an excellent area for Diotima to work on as a scholar. Héviz is near (about 5 miles) and old Roman fort (although the ST mentioned in a PM it was 'on the site of'; maybe he plans to relocate it for the story ?) which actually stood in the middle of a little pocket of Roman Culture until the end of the 8th century, giving decent chances of finding some surviving texts. They spoke a unique Romance language but had close links with the Byzantine, so bringing in a scholar known for translating both Latin and Greek makes sense.

Oh, and there are graves of the period that probably contain gold artifacts, as well as pagan graves from the Avar occupation (and probably lots of unconsecrated mass graves of Christians from the Mongol invasion) for our necromancer.

How much would it cost if someone other perform a normal spell for the player?
I special ask about "The Ambulatory Laboratory" to not losing all the saisons invested in a Lab just because of moving.

For the "seven new Shape and Material Bonuses" from the Green Cockerle Initation I have talked with CJ.
He says this is a special initation and all what you need to do for the Initation for the Green Kings and getting Unaging.
(What means you keep the created items you creat to find this bonus)

So I think the first 2 Initations (The Toad & The White Swan) are each 2 saisons of quests + 1 saison of Initation.
For the totall 6 saisons this initations take your are a lab assistant to the Mystragogue.

Regarding the Ambulatory Laboratory (which has been errat'ed to level 50), you have to find the right magus and bring him to your laboratory, and that's going to cost him time, and the time of someone who casts level 50 spells is bound to be very valuable... actually, I think a more likely scenario would be a magus with the right Arts making a few charged items with the spell, and selling them. After the first season he'll have a lab text, so he'll make one item per 5 points of Lab Total... I think 1 or 2 pawns of vis would be a fair price, plus the cost of a redcap delivering it and while you are at it another redcap bringing you an arcane connection to the new lab. Say 3 pawns of vis total ? What do you think ?

As item even if just a charged item I would say it cost at last 15 Vis.
My calculation is that he need to have at last 50 in the lab totall and so I take the this value as if it was his labtotall for Vis extraction what result in 5 Vis.
Together with the multiplicator by 3 its 15 Vis (normal Verditus rattings).