Original Research: LR for mundanes at full stregnth

Normally, a longevity ritual provides much less benefit to non-magical people. A Boni lab rat in my game has become obsessed with brewing a better potion for his True Love wife. Original research commences with the goal of fixing the flaw in Hermetic Theory that makes LRs weaker for non-wizards.

If the end result is that wizards can brew full strength potions for mundanes, what level of breakthrough would you consider it? My first thought was minor since it was only a variation that fits well within the existing framework. But, I can see a good argument (if somewhat for metagame reasons) for it to be major. On the other hand, I feel like a major breakthrough would be something like making the LR provide the Unaging virtue or mimicking the Lesser Elixir mystery. What do you think?

Minor breakthrough for me. As you say, it is an enhancement to an existing process.

I thought that once your warping score reaches 5, you become "magical" enough not to be affected by Auras -- and to qualify for full strength longevity potions. So you don't really need any breakthrough at all.

Without other sources of warping, it will take 75 years to get to a warping score of 5 just from living in an aura f 6 or more.
I think if they have a minor supernatural flaw it's enough, but hey, that's me. Why? It becomes another vis sink for the players.

Reaching a Warping Score of 5 gives a mundane a Minor Virtue and attunes them enough to the principle source of warping to stop the gain of warping points from living in a high level aura. However, to gain the full benefit of an LR, the (sorta)-mundane must have a "Supernatural Ability." (ArM5 101) In theory you could get a virtue granting a Supernatural ability at Warping Score 5, but you may not.

From a practical standpoint, the mundane is likely to be at least 100 years old and will have experienced lots of aging, decrepitude, and ageing crises during the 75 years it takes to Warp to a Warping Score of 5. Unless the potion brewer is a really powerful longevity specialist, the wizard will likely need to rebrew the potion for the mundane a couple of time to get her that far (depending on chance), as well as deal with her increasingly frail condition (loss of ability points and Decrepitude).

Dont forget that giving a mundane a Longevity Ritual counts as a powerful effect by someone else so more warping points there I think... with a discount for "designed for you"

That's not correct. Since they have to be present during the design of the ritual: it is created for a specific individual.

I think Khelek meant that it counts as a continuous magical effect, hence 1 warping point per year. The "discount" he mentions is the fact that it was designed for that person.

I don't read well on my phone. The suggestion that because they are mundane threw me off. Doesn't matter I'd they are mundane or a magus. Everyone gets the warping.

There is another "shortcut" for your player. Mystery cults can grant Supernatural virtues, an a Longevity Ritual is at full power for someone with a Magic Realm Supernatural virtue (P. 101, AM, third column, third paragraph). Either join a Mystery cult, or make one of your own (enchanting music, she is your wife!). Either will be a lot easier then OR. And, since the player was present the whole process, it can probably be researched as a "breakthrough" for LR Original Reasearch if he wants to continue on the topic.

Except by default Hermetic Wizards can only initiate gifted individuals. Initiating the ungifted is something that would have to be researched from another tradition.

As to the OP this is definitely a Minor Breakthrough IMOHO. That doesn't mean it doesn't have to be difficult. Minor Breakthroughs can have a higher difficulty then Major Breakthroughs. The difference by my reading is in the result not the difficulty.

No, Hermetic Mages can only teach Supernatural Abilities (P. 166, AM, Learning Supernatural Abilities). Initiation does not require the Gift (See Houses of Hermes, Mystery Cults, P. 4) as seen by Hedge Magic, where there are several Initiations for Non-Gifted given as examples (Serf's parma). The point of reference for most Hermetic Mages would probably be the Redcaps, with their quasi-public Cult of Heroes, and their attempts to create a script to grant The Gift.......

Yes, thank you. I did not have the text so my wording was wonky.

That is my reading as well... however, not every Virtue should be available in a given campaign or region, etc, and you should not just be able to "order" up a mystery cult to your liking. if you go this route make sure it is inspired... or at least offers an interesting mix, and often reserves the "good stuff" for later. [sorry I really like the mystery cult rules, but was saddened there was not more info on how to use them well or guidance how to make mundane versions... that is a good possibility for a source book]

of course if your just looking for any ability to open up the possibility of a full strength LR, good luck and avoid the infernally corrupted ones!

Well Hedge Magic pg 14 seems to imply otherwise, in it's UnGifted initiations sidebar. I've always treated the gift as a requirement with exceptions. I thought it was the RAW but it seems I might be wrong.

A requirement where? Obviously, Ungifted Initiations are possible (Listed in the Hedge Magic book, page 14, as you said), but the tripping point seems to be when no one involved has the Gift, which is not the case here, where a Hermetic Mage (Gifted by definition) wants to help his wife.