Original research


I have been reading the original research chapter in the True lineages book and are wondering about a few things, I thought that this forum could help me come to a conclusion. If a magus has a lab total of lets say 80 in his chosen arts he could experiment on a eight magnitude spell each season towards reaching his lofty goal. But if he makes a discovery he will suffer a few warping points when he is stabilizing his discovery, after all eight minus a simple die is going to get him warping most of the time. Is there a reason why he can’t experiment on lets say eight different effects in the same arts and await that he has eight discoveries that need to be stabilized and stabilize them all in one season? I have read the text and can’t seem to find any answer. After all less warping gives the magi more time to enjoy his soon to be fame. Also I have wondered how would you treat an project in original research that aims at improving the vis extraction process, perhaps dubbing the bonus from the aura.

I hope that this isn’t gibberish and that you all understand what I am asking about. As always thanks for your thoughts.


Well, 8 different spells at least sure looks like a perversion of the rules and intent, so I'd say nope.

As per an improved vis extraction process, I think I'd give a base difficulty, and, depending on the improvement sought, increase it. It would be easier to double the aura's impact than do double the number of pawns extracted, for exemple.

Max - Even if the text doesn't spell it out, do you think a mage should be able to stabilize an unlimited number of discoveries in one season? (My guess is that there is a phrase hidden in there implying "one at a time".)

I agree with both of you. I am interested in hearing your opinions upon the matter. One can imagine that there is a lot of more effort put into original research experimentation the simple spell writing. More thoughts upon the improvement of vis extraction, longevity potions.

He's not doing it all at once. He's spending a separate week and a half on each one :smiley:

Normally I would also say no, but I am generous enough to help minimize the warping. Are you the SG or player? As SG, do whatever you think is best. As a player, suck up to the sg and troupe. Though it isn't clear, I don't think you can rules-lawyer this. Instead, make the arguement that you feel that, overall, warping is to frequent and excessive. That is personally how I feel, and though I still use the scale and rules as given, I allow various exceptions to help mitigate the situation.

Simple - sounds like he needs to get the SG to approve a new Ability, "Juggling", and then just take as his specialty (Lab Projects).

Or Legerdemain, that could work too. :wink:

Since I think I know where this is heading, One discovery per season can be stabilized at Lough Caillte. :stuck_out_tongue: Try to do two, and Mab gets to help :smiling_imp: . Your saga may vary.


I am thinking about the application of rules. But they will sometime in the future be used at Lough Caillte, with perhaps fortunate results :slight_smile: . Any good solutions of how to handle lab routine improvement? I am thinking of what difficulties (discovery points needed) to invent a new and improved vis extraction process. What need of discovery points for which improvements?

I'd say compare with virtues allowing different kind of extractions, and judge accordingly.

For exemple, there's a virtue out there allowing automatic extraction of vis. Based on this, you could extrapolate another virtue, allowing double extraction, which could be slightly more difficult to research.


Regarding researching several small projects in one season - I once had the same idea, but I don't think this is legal according to the RAW. In the ArM5 core book, the section on "Multiple Laboratory Activities" states, "If you perform arcane experimentation... any results rolled on the 'Extraordinary Results Chart' apply to all activities performed in the season." I interpret that as including the ERC roll that determines whether a magus achieves a discovery. Your saga may, of course, decide differently.

As for your intended research project, doubling the aura's effect on a magus' lab total (I think that's what you meant), doesn't sound too unbalancing to me, so I'd probably make that a minor breakthrough. You could also go for a major breakthrough and attempt to research greater philosophical alchemy from TMRE. (I'd put lesser philosophical alchemy somewhere between a minor and major breakthrough, but the OR rules are a little vague on minor virtues.)

Lastly, if you plan to be doing much original research, I commend Yair's interesting set of house rules to your troupe's consideration.

Thanks for the suggestion ncl but my wizards project is another one than improving lab totals for vis extraction. I just felt that the RAW didn’t cover that bit about improving lab processes. After all some Bonisagi without delusions of grandeur must be considering small, accomplishable and practical improvements for magi. I wouldn’t be surprised if Bonisagi magi in the vis poor areas of the world try their hardest to produce vis more efficient, make up spells that change the type of vis etc.

Max, all Bonisagi have delusions of grandeur. :slight_smile: (My PC is a Bonisagus. He's trying to break the limit of creation.)

Still, unless they want something really unbalancing, I'd consider laboratory process improvements to be minor breakthroughs. A new spell R/D/T is also a minor breakthrough, and those seem like roughly comparable projects to me.

Right, but say an effect equal to a minor magical focus would be a excellent minor breakthrough. But there must be magi who attempt something lesser… at least there must be someone, perhaps those who have a master who dropped them in the floor at a tender age or something similar. :laughing: