PeCo spell question

Range: Personal spells can't be Target: Group, explicitly by RAW.

I have this view about touch and group. You have to have chain of touch to every member of the group. So if it isn't touched, it isn't part of the group. A chain of people holding hands might work.

For voice group: all members ofthe group have to be in voice range.

This by the way works for creo as well. If you are creating 20 buildings, Touch is not the range you want. (Sight more likely)

I reason it this way, range is the range the magic takes effect. while group means a larger number of targets are effected, they still have to be touch for touch, able to hear for voice or be seen for sight.

Cohesion of the group and boundary isn't as important when you interpret it this way though still has a group for the larger ranges.

I agree.

The group has to be clearly defined. "This group that I am touching, which doesn't include me" is a perfectly clear definition.

This is perfectly permissible. Why do you think it is a problem?

What makes this spell a problem and a spell one magnitude greater (and Voice range) not a problem?

I thought something similar, until I read greg's comment above (PeCo spell question)

I took the liberty to replace every instance of "group" by "bloodline", hence the following misquote:

It is, but that's not how Group works. ArM5 p 113 "... close together in space ... separated from ... same type."

Using touch, the Group will always include the caster.

Don't be silly, "I" is separate from "Them".

And if that's not convincing, the fact that Personal is a different Range to Touch, means Hermetic Theory distinguishes between "I" and "Them" too.

I will assume you actually read p 113.

Are you saying "of the same type" can be "men wearing boots"? And if that's the case, when does "six people out of a crowd" kicks in? I read "type" as "human beings", in which case the caster is necessarily close enough to be part of the Group.

At spell design time, sure. I don't see why the spell couldn't be designed to target a "Group of Soldiers". Or a "Group of Women". The magus designing the spell decides what "type of thing" can be in the group his spell will affect.

"People who are not me" sounds a fine way of describing a type of thing. "People who are Women" is an equally fine type of thing. "People who are Saracens" sounds good too.

"Men wearing Pants" is probably OK, but might need a requisite depending on how "magical" your troupe thinks magic can be.

The "six people in a crowd" bit means that you cannot distinguish between things that are nominally part of your defined target type. So, if your spell is designed to affect a "Group of Women", you can't suddenly decide when you cast the spell that no, in fact, you are only going to affect "that woman, that one, not that one, this one, that one, not that one, that one and that one".

However, if your spell is designed to affect a "Group of Women", the fact that there are some men, and a badger standing nearby, does not prevent you casting the spell on the women, and only affecting the women.

It would seem farily un-controversial to me, that you could create an Animal spell with Group target, that was designed to turn a Group of dogs blue. I would expect this spell to work (and only affect the dogs) even if there were a couple of cats standing near the dogs.

So, just like an Animal spell can be designed to affect certain types of Animal, there seems nothing wrong with a Corpus spell that only affects certain types of person.

"Type" is not a synonym for "Form", in this context.

I am not sure I agree with your interpretation, not that it really matters since it's more a question for troupe than actual dry facts.

Cats and dogs are of different nature, and a group of Slavs in Alexandria might be distinct enough. But religion being a thing of the mind I'd expect (maybe In) Me req for muslims. And certainly An/He unless the pants were made of human hairs.

BTW, I found your silly remark offensive. Why couldn't you find this answer the first time around?

About the Eye range, it's needed that the being to see you, the all the group need that condition; but it's clear that you don't need touch all the object. The Target Eye i see it more limited in that sense, but very cool for others effects, possible it shouldn't work with the Bloodline Target nor Group, only Individual or Part.
But again, a touch group spell can affect all, in the way to affect a lot of seeds in a camp for example.

Because 1 higher, by RAW has to be Ritual. :wink: :stuck_out_tongue:

There is only a connection with the one you touch. And its debatable what constitutes a group.

Lol, sorry...