PeCo spell question

Okay so you invent the following spell:

Village of the Blind (Perdo, Corpus) Level 30

R: Voice, D: Mom, T: Group +1

Casting the spell blurs the sight of a group of people up to 100. (keeping this simple) Heals as a Light Wound.

(Base 5, +2 Voice, +2 Group, +1 Mag for additional Group size)

Here some questions:

  1. Do I have the mechanics and level right?

  2. Duration is only Mom and the targets have to heal the Light Wound before they can see again?

  3. This spell could instead be a laming spell, or a hand crippling spell, ect. as long as it is a low level hampering that does not injure?

  4. Would this be more interesting than the Rego version that makes the 100 people dance like like they are in a Bollywood video? (Just imagine, you make the whole large group of people start dancing... a spell that must be made!)

Thanks for any insight or discussion

The spell name is a bit of an overstatement. "Village of the Myopic" would be more accurate.

The mechanics are correct. The Voice Range might limit the number of people you can affect though. I would say that all 100 would need to hear the sound of your voice.

That is correct. The damage from Perdo Corpus spells is instantaneous and will heal over time.

Yes. You could not cripple a limb, making it unusable, but you could hamper it. I would say -3 to rolls involving the hampered limb would be appropriate.

Curse of St. Vitius' Dance
ReCo 40
R: Voice, D: Moon, T: Group +1
Casting this spells causes a group of up to 100 people to dance continuously until the next new or full moon sets. Those affected suffer one Long-Term Fatigue for each twelve hours of dancing. After the affected dancer falls unconscious, he will continue dancing. The dancer must then make a Stamina roll of 6+ to avoid taking a Light Wound for each subsequent 12 hours of dancing. The dancer is unable to recover Fatigue until released from the effects of the spell, and all Wound Recovery rolls are made at -3 until released from the spell.
(Base 4 (Control the large-scale physical movement of the Target), +2 Voice, +3 Moon, +2 Group, +1 Size)

I think RAW says only one of them needs to be able to hear you:

Yeah, you're right, but I think the spell is practically limited by the "Group" requirement. ArM5, page 113 says, "The components of the group must be close together in space." So, you couldn't get the entire village by casting it on some random villager, but would have to hit one of them while they were clumped together.

I do agree.

Isnt that mainly a matter of targets that actually are continous one way or another?

I wouldn't say so: if I'm casting a Range: Touch spell on a Group of grogs, I think it's fine to just touch one of them, not have to touch all of them at once (or each in turn).

I always thought you had to be able to reach the furthest of the group, meaning that group is generally useless without voice or sight. Room is different, you have to touch the room, not necessarily the furthest wall.

Ofcourse, if the grogs were all holding hands (or equivalent), I could touch them all by touching one - magical logic.

When people write Touch/Group spells, i think its quite normal to specify the need for the group to be in contact directly or indirectly.

Well, i dont agree with you at least and i wouldnt allow it. If you´re casting a Touch/Group +5 size PeCo killspell on an army that stretches over tens of km a road from where you touch ONE soldier, and you still kill the whole army?
No way!

The way I read the RAW, yes, at least as long as the army is sufficiently "compact" to qualify as a Group.

Indeed. That is a dead army. However, armies rarely march so close together, so your spell will probably keel a few dozens of soldiers, but not the whole army. Considering that razing Paris (except for the Aura or divine intervention) is easy I see no problem with the "kills an army" touch spell. If they are close together, they are toast. There are always counters to that, though.


Somehow it bothers my senses that a Touch spell would act upon a group of separate individuals. So if the range was Eye, then you would only have to look one person in the eye to cast on 10, 100, or 1,000 persons as long as they were standing close enough together?

Doesn't Touch imply or even demand that for you to cast you must be touching each item in the group?

I wonder if this has been clarified before, it seems the sort of discussion that either side could be argued convincingly.

I can definitely understand people who are uncomfortable with a Touch/Group spell affecting everyone in a group if just one target is touched, or an Eye/Group spell affecting everyone in a group if just one target is making eye contact. Your saga, your rules, and good on you. But it's hard for me to see how RAW is unclear: the very first sentence of the description of spell ranges is

By the way, if you have access to the Bloodline Target, do you feel that you have to touch every member of the family to affect them? If not, then why a group of people all in front of you?


If memory serves, "target: groups" have to be clearly defined - that means that a touch-range spell would almost certainly include the caster in the group if the technique used is Corpus or Mentem...

It also means that you often won't be able to target "that group of six among the crowd" or similar unless your spell is big enough to affect the whole crowd...

There are plenty of fiddly restrictions on target: group spells that offset its advantages,


But one thing, if the caster could be affected taht should be, his Magic resistance could shield him for the effects.
I've seen many effects to Range Touch and a great Target, like many Boundary Rituals or Structure, then i can't see any problems to the Touch and Group casting.

I'd be inclined to apply common sense in such situations.

Completely different. With Boundary or Structure, you affect something continuously connected.
Effectively you´re affecting a single "individual" that is just "a bit huge".

No, either its a dead army, end of story, because its all part of the same group, or it isnt.

So, if i use a spell to control water with T Group, if i target the nearest lake, i can control the water in all nearby lakes as long as the lakes are grouped together?
How about targeting groups of clouds? This could allow magi to use Touch range to control the weather over a whole continent. Or even more. How about using InAu(Im) to see "what clouds see"(via them, that is)? You may be able to look around the whole world using this exploit.

And really, "rarely march so close together"? Where exactly do you draw the line? If using a Sight spell, they could all be part of the same Group Target after all.
Define part of group. How far apart can they be and still count as part of the group? 1m? 2m? 5m? 25m?
Using Sight or Voice Range and T Group +X size makes that rather irrelevant most times.

Even if i agreed with the notion of a Touch spell affecting a noncontinuous group i still wouldnt allow it, not a chance. Supereasy to exploit to the extreme.

Whatever. If it does not rock your boat, do not use it. After all you are affecting light with imaginem in your saga and causing damaging illusions...

I draw the line at around 1-2 paces from each other = group. Otherwise they are just nearby individuals. Looking at pictures of demonstrations it is extremely easy to see where a group ends and another starts. I would use the same criteria here.

The clouds thing will get you marched, BTW.

And dead army is not the end of a story: it is the beguinning of a story arc :wink: A dead army is easy to create. Blasting London to pieces is also easy, BTW. As usual it is not what can be done, but what consequence it has that matter. Killing thousands of people ios not a "freebie action". Not IMS at least.


Only indirectly.

So what´s the "grouping range" for lakes, oceans or clouds then?

Maybe. :smiley:

Extremely easy now.

Crowdkiller spell, PeCo Base 30, Group +2, Touch +1, Size +1. Instakill 100 people by touching one.

3(thousand) blind mice, PeCo base 20, Group +2, Touch +1, Size +3. Make 10000 people blind by touching one.

Bonfire Crowd, CrIg Base 20, Group +2, Touch +1, Size +3. Instahurt 10000 people by touching one.

Now for some more fun, lets drop the "Touch" as well:
Dastardly Crowdkiller spell, PeCo Base 30, Group +2, Personal, Size +2. Instakill 1000 people by targeting yourself as part of the crowd(with zero penetration).

How about casting some buff spells using Group/Personal? Being able to drop Range magnitudes to zero allows you to up the powerlevel by 5-15.