penetration, multiple casting and sorcerer's fork


I have several questions about the penetration of multiple spells affected by the sorcerer's' fork. To accept a mage casts a multiple spell like "demon'eternal oblivion" at lvl10 (penetration 40, mastery 3, so 4 copies). Before its multiple cast, B affects A with a sorcerer's fork lvl15 (ok, it's must be higher than the level of DEO) :

+He may cast one fork and thus gets 8 spells "DEO" of lvl5, each with penetration 40?
+He may cast 1one fork and thus gets 8 spells "DEO" of lvl5, each with penetration 20? (lvl/2, so penetration/2)
+He may cast 1 one fork and thus gets 8 spells "DEO" of lvl5, each with penetration 5 (8 copy, so penetration /8 )
+If he cast one fork, he affects only one copy of the multiple DEO, so at the end, there's 2 spells lvl5, an 3 spells lvl 10....ok but how I find the penetration?

  • He must cast multiple forks, baby!
  • ok , he's casting multiple fork, and how the penetration is distributed?
    +a big, nasty demon has interest to flee against such a pair of killers, right? :smiley:

thanks and sory for the broken English of a French magus

This is what I think would happen.
The argument being that Sorceror's Fork has T: Ind, and an individual for Vim would be a single (instance of a) spell.
To affect every copy, B would have to either multicast Sorceror's Fork, of use a T: Group version thereof.

The description of Sorceror's Fork indicates that penetration must be split between the resulting copies - I'd assume evenly, but it doesn't actually say so.

IMO, Sorcerer's Fork should act on only one copy, so you should only have 5 spells 3 are 10th level and two are 5th level. Since each spell is rolled separately, they are distinct spells, and the Sorcerer's Fork would only act on one of the copies. You also have the problem of casting two spells at the same time, which is an EF of 15 Int+Concentration...

But, yes, by RAW, a Vim specialist with PeVi casting scores in the 50's able to multiple cast DEO-10 several times can easily destroy a demon once discovered.

Tellus caught the penetration issue.

Does that mean that the Pen is "normal" for the 3x non-forked versions, as they were multi-cast. And then the 2x fork'ed spells have the pen halved between them?

So Pen is 40, 40, 40, 20, 20?

Penetration should be like that, since the spells are rolled separately. Multiple casting is probably too powerful by RAW, and I'm all for an HR that tones it down by requiring taking multiple casting once per copy, but I'm not in favor of reducing the penetration in any way with respect to multiple casting.

OK, B use a group version of sorcerer's fork: now how is distributed the penetration?

thanks , I suspected the answer but you have confirmed what I thought

I'll add a caveat, that changing the T:Group, means the group version of Sorcerer's Fork should be 10 levels higher than the multiple cast spell being forked.

Again, I'd assume evenly :slight_smile:

20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20.

You'll also note that this is rather inefficient against a single powerful demon, but might be useful against a large-ish group of rather samll ones.
If Magus B could pull it off, they might be better off using MuVi to boost the Target of the original DEO to T: Group (max 10 individuals), but that's probably going to be tricky.

You know, I never even thought to add that stipulation in. My bad - thank you for reminding me. :slight_smile:
Yes, ofcourse the T: Group version would have to be 2 magnitudes (or more) higher than the spell being affected by it.
When thinking about effects - especially Vim effects - it usually helps to think about base guidelines and take it from there, IME.