Population, Finances, and Loyalty

This thread will be used to juggle the numbers from Covenants for Loyalty, Finance and Population, not just for the current season (Spring, 1213), but for all of them.

Characters are divided into lifestyle categories:
Magi are the most opulent, at 5x, getting an extra +1 to Living Condition Modifiers
Companions/Consortes are at 3x
Specialists and Craftsmen are 2x
Everyone else, including Horses (and, therefore by extension, Bears) are 1x

I divided the list as follows. Please tell me if you feel any characters should go in different places. In particular, right now I just have Serrano's 12 Dependents under the "Dependents" category.


Magi * 5 = 35
Constantine Amos, Flambeau -
Cygna of House Bjornaer -GENTLE GIFT
Hiems Ex Miscellanea - Effectively BLATANT
Serrano ex Misc - GENTLE
Servus ex Guernicus -
Viscaria Lynchis Verditti,
Jamie Lannister, Flambeau - Possible Bonus to Familiarity

Companion * 3 = 15
Claudia, failed apprentice. (Companion) (Peregrine)**
Raoudha Al'Jimni, Steward.
Father Pierre de Lyons (specialist, avail to be converted into a Companion)
The Widow Mustafa, Vineyard Manager 7 (specialist)
Esteban the Doctor and Natural Philosopher, (Specialist/ Noncombatant ). (**)

Specialists and Craftsmen * 2 = 22
Abdul Fati bin Saladin, Captain, (specialist) (+2Com, 7 Teach, 8Single Weapon) Weaponsmaster - Teacher. (Chicoazian)**
Sharae, Muslim Librarian 6 / Teacher3, +3 Com, (specialist)**
Danielle Castiblanco, Christian Scribe 6, (specialist)**
Sandra de los Montes, Christian Binder 6, (specialist)**
Fidelia Castaneda, Christian Illuminator 6, (specialist)**
Reyes, +2 Com, Faerie Lore 8 , + 3 Teacher , Dwarf Blooded/Palsied Hands specialist.
Farihah al-Kasim, (specialist) (6 Animal Handling) Veterinarian/Animal Doctor.
Noland (Naomi) Sepharad Craft:Blacksmith 7, Large (maybe Giant-blooded)
Hector, Craft:Glass(Mirror) 6 , Dwarf Blooded specialist
Tatiana, Craft:Lapidary 6 , Dwarf Blooded specialist
Sophia, Craft:Silversmith 6, Dwarf Blooded specialist

Grogs and Other Covenfolk * 1 = 9
Augustus - Shield Grog-in-Training to Amos Scutum:
Brigitte - Shield Grog-in-Training to Amos Scutum:
Damien, Hiems Shield Grog. ()
Gerard, Large Grog of Hiems, (
Maria the Swordswoman. Cygna's Grog,
Marie the Scout Hiems' Grog. (**)
Molly, Sergeant - Shield Grog to Amos Scutum:
Terrence of Riversedge, Cygna's Shield Grog.
Ursula, Hammer Specialist grog for Viscaria. (NO EQUIPMENT)

Dependent *1 = 14
Francois de la Champagne, Nicholas and Jeannette's children.
Josephine de la Champagne, Nicholas and Jeannette's children.
Serrano’s 12 (Not sure where to put these guys)

SUBTOTAL 1 : 95 points

Servants, min (Subtotal1/10 * 2) 20 required. We have 9 * 1 = 9
Celestria, Cygna's maid grog.
Nicholas de la Champagne, Amos's short Butler-grog. Amos's best friends in private, and Failed Apprentice due to his Goblin Heritage. Might assist in the lab.
Jeannette de la Champagne, Nicholas's wife and Amos's laundress and cook grog.
Matron Rebecca Yatrick, the head maid. Counts as a servant for income or loyalty purposes
(Others not yet named)

SUBTOTAL2: 104 pts

Laborers (Math gets ugly, but we don’t have people to spare) 0
Teamsters: (Subtotal2 - [2* Laborers = 0] = 104)/10 = 11 needed. We have 5

SPRING 1213 TOTAL: 109 pts of people

Well, it ain't for most things, but I like it to be counted as such for covenant loyalty purposes, due to his otherwordliness and cold aura. Great idea :smiley:

Maybe possibly nullified, if he's been here for 15+ years.

I just notice that Peregrine's Companion, Abdul al-Faisal the Rug Merchant, is neither on the list nor has he made an appearance in the game yet.

Yes, Familiarity maxes out when it negates penalties, so Jaime is effectively Gently Gifted for the locals - so the group of you give a base Loyalty of -28. It is kind of amazing just how much wealth matters to the Loyalty system:

Loyalty Base= -28

-15 Devastating Event (War decimates population)
-3 Severe Hardship (understaffed and overworked)
+20 Aging Bonus
+10 Equipment Standard + Expensive (Covenant can easily afford more)
+0 Salary
+8 Raoudha
+6 Chamberlain
+0 Fati
= -2

Which puts us somewhere between "wary of the magi" and "treated like normal gentry." Increase their wages and luxury goods and they shoot up to "resist most inducements to betray [the magi]."

He's listed under "Other Iberians" (down there under "Non-Magi" at the bottom of the page) because I hadn't actually pictured him as living at Cijara, just making frequent visits. Which is also why he hasn't made an appearance yet.

As an aside, his info has him living in Toledo, which is about 160 km away (which by my reckoning is 3-4 days?). Would it make more sense for him to be based out of Castilblanco? Probably much smaller, but much closer.

Stupid English/Metric stuff. A cart travels 20 miles on a good day, roughly 32 km, same as a peasant on foot. That puts him 5 days away.

Castiblanco is closer, but a very small village. Toledo is a Christian capital city now. How about Trujillo? Almohad city that has resisted Christian incursion for a good long while, 3-4 days away with a caravan, and a much better source of rugs and carpets.

Works for me. I'll make the change in his Wiki entry.

Would Claudia having Magical Air (and the attendant social penalties) have any effect on the covenant's loyalty?

(hopefully in the morning I'll feel less brain-foggy and be able to find this stuff in my Covenants...been a very busy couple of days. Found the Loyalty section, but haven't taken the time to go digging through to find the other stuff yet.)

Yes. Counts as The Gift, minus Familiarity offsets. Will need to know how long she's been in Cijara.

I'm thinking probably three years, maybe a little more? (She's 12 now, with an eventual Int +4, so she could have been apprenticed as young as 8, if I remember the numbers that I read somewhere right).

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Oh, and probably keep Cygna away from the mundanes, even if she does have the Gentle Gift. Under "Punishment," "Public humiliation - being dressed down in front of the whole turb, for example" is worth -3 Loyalty Points per, it seems. And I can't really see Cygna not losing her temper and yelling at someone every now and again.

You changed Wrathful to a Minor Flaw , so can avoid public humiliation scenes if necessary.
Amos has Fury as a Major Flaw , so i can see it happening far more often than with Cygna.

Only with the original covenfolk , it won't apply to incomers.

While amusing , surely only applies to post-adolescent male covenfolk.
Would be -06 for all the female covenfolk of Islamic and Jewish backgrounds.

She has Presence +4 and Housemaid:2, not counting her Satyr blood. 4+2 = 6. The "since she's hot" was a reference to my surprise at seeing a grog with a Great Characteristic. The covenant has the Strong Community Boon and Divided Loyalty Hook, so I'm not going to track separate Loyalty scores for them like this. The Loyalty score will indicate their average relationship to the covenant, becoming more Divided by religion when the score drops.

Again, this feels technically true, but an unsavory amount of additional math to keep track of for very little gain. Loyalty represents the feelings of the entire population of the covenant and its holdings (which, as previously discussed, number in the multiple hundreds, but explicitly are not counted in the Income math) as an average. Named characters have responses based on their personalities.

Flaws: Infamous i[/i], Lecherous,
Reputations: -4 as Homewrecker

Just saying , that i think a pandemic +06 bonus , initially , will change markedly , especially when the Reputation kicks in.
Due to the lack of men on site , we can probably expect a regular supply of male "guests".

And christian.
Back then, christianity was... Not very tolerant.

Yup. IIRC, covenant abstracts this, saying that so long as newcomers aren't a great percentage of the total population, then can be ignored for this.

That, of course, is an issue, and I can very well see part of her reputation (or all of it if there was broken homes left and right, which, luckily, there won't be) apply as a malus after some time.

Strong Community Boon u[/u] , Divided Loyalty Hook u[/u]
Page 19 , Covenants:

The way i read this is , 3 religious factions that each have a Strong Community. Major trumps Minor.
Unless the wiki already details how this works.

8 adults: 3 married couples (craftsmen/clothier) , Matriarch (widowed) (Dependent) , Single Male (widower) (profession: wrangler (bears))
4 children (Dependent)

Agreed. This will come into play later, which is one of the reasons I, as SG, am pushing for her to take the position :smiling_imp:

Noted. I will update the appropriate places when I get a chance.