Possible Hermetic Breakthrough - Limit of Warping

Games Discussion Ars Magica
1

Salve Sodales!

In the game we have been playing for 5 IRL years we reached a point where the magi can realisticly try to research an Hermetic Breakthrough.
Please share your thought connected to this potential Herm. BT. about:

  • Game balance
  • Potential political consequences inside the House Bonisagus
  • Potential (political) consequences in the Order
  • How would you as a SG master this story arc of OR?

The idea is to limit the further accumulation of Warping Points.
The character will have Warp Score 6 or 7 when he finishes this OR.
The following documentation was posted by the player of the Bonisagus magus:

" The Limit of Magical Deformity (Limit of Warping)

Strong magical effects, auras or the Twilight leave its mark on the magus: deforming, warping his existence. As a result so much Magical Deposition arises in the mage's being that he becomes unable to keep Magic under his control. In the end the Final Twilight sucks the magus inside.
The main goal of this Original Research is to find a way to get rid of this Magical Deposition, or at least stops its additional accumulation. Ultimately, to save the Members of the Order from the scourge of Final Twilight, which cuts the thread of their work for the betterment of the world.

Possible methods:

  • Cleansing Ritual: During a magical cleansing ritual the mage cleans his metaphysical self. (Downside: consumed Vis; Mild warping from the Powerful Mystical Effect itself)
  • Container for Warping: With the special enchantment the mage plants a piece of his Magical Warping into an item. This is a seasonal laboratory activity, following the rules of enchanted item creation. The Base effect equals the amount of transferred Warping Points. The item must be a Constant effect item. The item is a permanent AC for the mage. (Downside: consumed season and Vis; generate vulnerable spot on magus)

Starting effects:

  • InVi effects to quantify Warping or to inspect the Gift
  • PeVi effects to destroy or weaken magics
  • Co, Me or Vi effect in the Familiar Chord which is powerful enough to warp the mage, but because of the nature of Chords it does not.
  • CrVi effects which creates powerful, raw magical energies
  • ReVi effects suppressing or controlling magical energies or the Gift itself.

New GuideLines:
InVi - Level 5:

  • Detect the exact Warping Score of the target.
  • Detect the amount of excess Warping over actual Warping Score.

MuPeVi - General:

  • Ritual. Remove as much Warping Point from the target as (Base level + 1 magnitudes) of the Vim spell + a stress die (no botch)/5, rounded up. The ritual cannot lower Warping Score, thus can only remove the excess Warping Points over the actual Warping Score. The Magus also looses some of his own magical energies during the cleansing - as much XP from highest Art and as much XP from highest Ability as the stress die rolled for the spell itself. For casting the ritual the nativity horoscope of the target is needed.

MuReVi - General:

  • The enchantment forces the excess Warping Points over the actual Warping Score of the Magus into an enchanted item. The item must be enchanted with a Constant effect. The item is a permanent AC for the Magus. When the item is destroyed, all the Warping Points will get back to the Magus. That definitely forces a roll to avoid Twilight. For creating this item the nativity horoscope of the target is needed."
3 Likes
2

Just for the sake of balance and avoid immortal, yet evolving mage, I like the Portrait of Dorian's Gray option.
That is: the warping, or its consequences are transferred to an external support. Would this support become undone, the warping's transfer is reversed, very likely bringing the mage to his final Twilight.
In term of story material, it is very interesting, and for game balance, it leaves the door open to violent backlash. Of course, a careful mage would make this extremely difficult, yet it exists. And the more powerful a mage become, the more powerful are going to be his enemies, so they will -eventually - have enough resources to be a threat to the support.

Depending on how dark you want to drive your campaign, the support can be an object (a portrait for example), a living creature or even a living human. Going with the living support begs the question: what happen to the support when it dies? Can it die? If it can die and the Twilight transfer is reverted, it allows the mage to gain possibly 100 years, it also brings the interest story where the mage needs to keep alive his support at all cost. But also, it limits at then the mage "immortality".

A possible consequence of this discovery would be that other mages might be interested to find out if a similar approach can be applied to Decrepitude. Once a mage mastered both techniques, would he become technically immortal as immune to Decrepitude and Twilight ?

The option to remove warping point without being able to go under the current warping score is actual also a nice alternative although bringing less story than the previous one.
Twilight crisis remains potentially dangerous: once a mage get to certain warping score, he always is at risk of disappearing for while. The downside of loosing some magical expertise is thematic. How much XP to lose can be discussed and finetuned, but it is a decent solution.
I probably would link it to a virtue to acquire through an initiation, otherwise such ritual would become prevalent as much as longevity potion or Aegis. Maybe you get Twilight Prone by being able to interact with the Twilight: you can "cure" it, but you are also more sensitive to it.
Because of the ability to shed Twilight point, there is a risk of slowly accruing Virtues through Twilight, so maybe, when you shed excessive Twilight point, you loose the last Virtue you got during a Twilight episode.
Keep in mind that since mage can experience twilight more safely, or at least for longer before getting suck by it - they will develop Enigmatic Wisdom if only by exposure - and would even seek knowledge about it after understanding what is happening to them (and you can bet that players will want to maximise this opportunity), so a balance mechanism would not be a bad idea: the virtue last until the next shedding, or last as long as the Twilight episode.
So a mage could be in a situation: I like this virtue, so maybe I am willing to get to the next level of Twilight to keep it to "lock it in place" ?

5 Likes
3

It might be relevant to the "game balance" question that the Fountain of Youth from Mythic Locations, p.81, not only removes Warping (and significantly: it lowers Warping Score by 3, albeit once in a lifetime) but it is explicitly mentioned to be a potential source of Insight to break the limit of Warping.

For what it's worth a long, long, long time ago, when playing 3rd edition (with the unofficial "breakthrough" rules by none other than David Chart) we had actually come up with a "Twilight Cord" with which one could bind a familiar and "shunt" to it a significant portion of one's Twilight points (the name for warping in ArM3). More specifically the magus' Twilight Score for all purposes was effectively divided by (Cord Score+1), rounding up.

4 Likes
4

As this option essentially makes the magus immortal, I would look for the rules for that in TMRE. I would suggest modeling it after the alchemical immortality mystery.

The key point here is that further advancement (learning Arts, Abilties, spells, and so on) is more difficult. Another key point is that paths to immortality turn magi into creatures of Magic, rather than just eliminate Warping. This has in-game political significance, as it is unclrear whether he is still formally a Magus.

5 Likes
5

Thank you for pointing out these things. Those should be considered before leting this breakthrough into the game.

But I have to clear one thing: the only requirement - based on the Code - to be an hermetic magus is to swear the Oath in front of another magus.

I read a lot of wishy-washy argument about soul, etc. - and actually nobody cares about your soul or what is your position about the question of soul. It is not even a minimum condition to be human. You are an hermetic mage as long as you are not formally Renounced. And that needs a Tribunal decision.

3 Likes
6

In the Rhine tribunal, not even being dead is a hindrance to having your vote at Tribunal. (Actually, no hindrance to having someone else cast your vote.)

1 Like
7

Oh yes, there is definitely a case to be made for Magical creatures being recognized as magi. But then again, in practice they are NOT, and all Tribunal decisions are utlimately political decisions. The point here isn't that the issue is settled, on the contrary - the point is that it's a plot hook that's interesting to consider as a point in favor of the standard way of doing immortal magi.

4 Likes
8

A lot of that depends on the source of immortality. The oldest case of a magi gaining Might is likely Quendalon. He wasn't cast out of the order. Nor was Mercere after losing his Gift. I suspect some magi may want to argue more about a living ghost, but then again, the ghost being bound in a building rarely will ever show up at tribunal for the case to warrant debate at all. Daimons are functionally out of reach and don't really need order membership. And I don't see on what basis someone who gained Might but didn't lose the Gift might lose his membership in the order. That the issue wasn't settled doesn't mean there's any likelihood of anyone but a living ghost being considered out of the order.

7 Likes
9

For Living Ghosts we have the following statement from TM:RE

Note also that one’s protection under
the Code of Hermes nominally ends at
death; while he may retain sympathy and
friendship with his sodales, all Hermetic
status and legal protections are immedi-
ately lost. However Living Ghosts are
very rare, and the issue has never been
tested at Tribunal.

For other types of immortality I can't find any clear statements on how the Order treats them.
Presumably immortal magi are rare enough, and those who do exist don't want to draw attention to themselves, that the issue has never been officially decided at Tribunals.

4 Likes
10

Yes. I expect that, if someone has the great elixir and turned immortal, and someone brings a case against them, it might turn into a case of scrying.

4 Likes
11

I would like to share with you the consensus established by our Troupe regarding Warping and this particular Breakthrough.

We established three distinct ways to handle Warping, and during the OR process the mage can lay the foundation of all the methods within the same Hermetic Breakthrough. Essentially the researcher invents some new Vim based Guidelines for creating particular spells and effects.

However, we've concurred that an Hermetic Breakthrough should require 100 BT points, contrary to the 60 suggested by HoH:TL.
One more Major Breakthrough can expand the scope of the new guidelines to be able to affect non-Magical (aka. other Realms-specific) Warping.

The three potential methods are:

  • Ritual of Cleansing
  • Warping Chord (for Familiars)
  • Container of Magical Deformity

New Intellego Vim Guidelines (Applicable and beneficial across all methods)
Level 5:

  • Ascertain the precise, current Warping Score of the target.
  • Identify the quantity of surplus Warping beyond the current Warping Score.

Ex:
Feel the Lumps and Bumps
InVi lvl10
(Base5, +1 Touch, M, I)

By casting the spell the mage can get quantifiable information about the magical deformity of the target's spirit - effectively the amount of surplus Warping Points beyond current Warping Score. That is useful for designing enchanted items or rituals aimed to manipulate the magical deformity of that target.

Method 1.: Ritual of Cleansing

New Muto Perdo Vim Guideline
General - Ritual:

  • Remove a number of Warping Point from the target equals to {(the Base level + 1 magnitudes) of the Vim spell + a stress die (no botch)}/5 rounded up.
    The ritual cannot reduce Warping Score; only the "surplus Warping Points" beyond the actual Warping Score can be removed.
    The Magus also loses an amount of XP equal to the stress die rolled from their highest Art and highest Abilitiy Score. This can reduce the Score itself if that much XP is lost. Additionaly, a nativity horoscope of the target is needed for cating the ritual.

Cleansing the Body, the Mind and the Spirit
MuPeVi lvl42
(Base 37, +1 Touch, M, I) - Ritual

During the Ritual the magus performs a ritualistic cleansing: he bathes with clean soap created from special ingredients; he breaths smoke from Vis and scents of rare herbs. He stays in the water until it gets cold and he begins to shiver.

Next, he shall walk across hot ember made of oak and cypress - while his body is clean and pure he shall walk through the smoke and embers to cleanse his spirit and his mind as well.

After a succesful ritual roll a stress die. The magus can reduce his Warping Points by (Base37 + 5 + d10)/5 rounded up- However, the reduction is capped by his current Warping Score.

Ex:
After Veluvius succesfully performed a cleansing ritual on himself (but with Range: Personal) a stress die was rolled resulting in a 5. He has a Warping Score of 5 and 8 surplus Warping Points toward the Score of 6 ( WP: 5(8) ).
The magus could substracts up to 10 (Base37 + 5lvls(1 mgnt) + d10=5 Total:47 which equals 10 mgnt.) Warping Points from his surplus Warping Points. That cannot reduce his current Warping Score. Now he experiences methaphysical purity - but something is lost during the Ritual of Cleansing as well.
Following the ritual he can reduce his Warping Points by 8 and keep his Warping Score of 5, but with Zero points toward the next score (WP: 5(0)).
However, Veluvius' player should substract 10 XP from the character's highest Art and 10 XP from the highest Ability Score. Note that this can actually reduce the previous Art or Ability Score of the character - as the loss is not limited the same way as the Warping Score.

Method 2.:

The Warping Chord

  • The Magus can forge a special chord with their familiar akin to the Golden Chord, but as a different, 4th kind of Familiar Chord. Like the three well-established original chord, this also uses and share the same Lab Total.
  • This new, unique chord has the ability to conduct excess magical energy, helping the Mage to handle the mercurial nature of Magic. It can decrease the number of Warping Points sufferd by the Mage - when determining the amount of Warping Point suffered from a botch or other potentially Twilight-inducing sources, you can substract Warping Points from the result equal to the Chord Strength of Warping Chord. By this way amount of Warping Points received can be reduce to zero.
  • (Unfortunately that doesn't negate the long-term Warping accumulated from powerful constant effects such a Longevity Ritual. However, these slowly aquired Warping Points would never be able to trigger a Twilight episode.)
  • The Golden Chord and the Warping Chord can be in powerful synergy, therefor Magi put effort into forging strong Golden and Warping Chords can have significant protection against the unpredictable ebb and flow of the magical powers. They should fear only mighty yet botched Rituals or the indomitable power of Dominium.

Method 3.:

Container of Magical Deformity

New Muto Rego Vim Guideline
General - Enchantment:

  • The enchantment forces the surplus Warping Points beyond the current Warping Score of the Magus into the enchanted item - transferring one Warping Point for every Base level of the effect. The item is unique for each magus, serving as a permanent Arcane Connection (AC) to them. The magus must touch the item at its activation to use it and supress his Vim based Magic Resistance - or incorporate sufficient Penetration into the item to overcome his Magic Resistance.
  • The item must be enchanted with a Constant effect. Should the item's power dispurted or the item itself destroyed, all Warping Points contained in that particular item will almost instantly return to the Magus - regardless of distance or Magic Resistance. This occures because the manipulated magical energy is essentially linked to the Mage's being. This event definitely forces a roll to avoid Twilight. For enchanting of the item a nativity horoscope of the target is needed.
  • In case of the item's destruction or disruption, the item's local aura should be used in calculation of Twilight Avoidance instead of the mage's.

Ex:
Saviour of the Magelord
MuReVi lvl40
(Base 20 +1 Touch, +2 Sun, Ind.; +3 env. trigger, +2 for 3 uses/day; - final lvl40)

The enchanted item can trap a maximum of 20 Warping Points from a specific magus beyond his Warping Score. It should be touched by that mage at sunrise or sunset while supressing his innate Vim Form Resistance. The item absorbs the "magical deformity" from the mage's being and contains it - therefor it must be enchanted with a Constant effect. It is possible to use the item as a container of Warping Points until it is full.

Macrinus enchanted a golden ring with the lvl40 effect to trap his surplus Warping Points. The item can store maximum 20 Warping Points.
First Macrinus used the item to trap 11 of his surplus Warping Points beyond his current Warping Score of 5.

After 4 years he has aquired another six surplus Warping Points beyond his Warping Score of 5: four WP from his Longevity Ritual and two WP from two mild botches. He can now use the item at sunrise or sunset to trap these six extra Warping Points. From now on the item containes 17 Warping Points.
In the future Macrinus can use the item to trap three more surplus Warping Points. After reaching 20 points of trapped Warping Points the item will be full.

It should be kept safe and active, because if the item is inactivated or destroyed during the next round Macrinus will suffer a "Warping Attack": he will receive Warping Points equal to stored int the item and compelled to roll to avoid Twilight. That would be really challengind for him since the EF calculation of his roll includes the number of Warping Points he received - which is already 17.

(He enchanted his golden ring to be used 3 times a day minding mishap. A special spell is used by Macrinus to monitor his precious ring; whenever he feels disruption in the power of the golden ring, his first intent is to reactivate its power. To be able to do this the player of Macrinus should roll for Concentration vs EF9 to see if Macrinus kept his cool: With succes he was able to supress his Parma fast enough. Another roll is needed for Initiative (to trigger an Enchanted item) vs EF9 to see if he was able to trigger his golden ring's power before being succumbed to the overwhelming power it contains. After the first failure of activating it quickly enough, Macrinus cursed himself for misenchanting the ring: he weaved its powers without "Fast Trigger". )

Should you calculate a Twilight episode in case of the item's destruction or disruption, use the normal method described in CRB. p. 88., but use the item's local aura instead of the mage's.

3 Likes
12

This makes me think of the case of Bjornaer in Final Twilight, who might assume the form of their inner hearbeast and acquire Magic Might. Those are named Great Beasts, and it is not clear whether they still have the Gift. HoH:MC only says "most are still in possession of true Intelligence. Despite this, they now possess wholly different motivations and goals, most of which are utterly inscrutable".
Would a Great Beast still be considered as a member of the order? I suppose that as in the case of Living Ghosts, the issue has never been tested at Tribunal.

1 Like
13

Someone gaining Might =/= True Immortal.

Just gaining Might (Transformed Human) is very fragile and can be undone with a single (Might Stripper) spell RAW, while that same spell only knocks off some temp might points in a True Immortal. Just gaining Might is temporary, though if you are careful that temporary can last a very very long time.

Being able to remove Warping will not make Magi immortal or even immune to age. There is a limit on how high Arts/Abilities can get vs how powerful a Longevity Ritual has to be to sustain them. While being able to remove Warping removes the "275 year from first LR" limit, that limit isn't really the limiting factor. That is because you don't instantly go into Final Twilight when you hit Warping 10 and the 1 point a year from LR won't kick a Twilight off. What the limiting factors are is Lab Total (plus modifiers) and Seasonal Vis.

The longest a Magi can survive is roughly the sum of:

  • Lab Total of LR (limited by Seasonal Vis)
  • Innate Aging Modifiers x5 (Faerie Blood, Bronze Cord, etc)
  • Environment Modifiers x5 (Living Condition, Healthy Feature, Lab Health, etc)
  • Variable +/- range for failure(s) of LR
  • Time it takes to die of extreme old age with no LR

Magi who get old have to be careful to stay within their Environmental Modifiers the majority of the time since those are calculated annually.

Recasting the LR at the extreme end will be at the point where they can't create a new powerful enough LR due to limits of Lab Total and Seasonal Vis. At that point they might be able to get a few more years by recasting the old one repeatedly but to do that need a ton of Vis.

Most Magi who do not meet a violent end are going to die of failed LR and old age rather than going into Final Twilight.

1 Like
14

That's how I see it. Bjornaers probably still see them as linked to the clan, but since the human side and the gift are lost, they wouldn't be magi either. Unlike immortal magi, the chances of a great beast being recognized as a member of the order is close to none, not to mention that would involve the Bjornaers broadcasting clan mysteries which they won't want to. They're more likely to intervene to prevent contact between great beasts and magi, if they hear of it. Typically a warning of the type of "this site is a Bjornaer clan site, entrance is forbidden to non house members under pain of wizard war" should be discouraging enough to the average magi.

15

My long-term campaign idea to reduce warping was a combination of the bloodline target, integrating Solomonic True Names, and finding the remains of either Seth, Adam, or Eve. And then a huge research project to use those to create a new Virtue, which would allow any Hermetic spell to be designed to be cast on humans--well, anyone descended from Adam or Seth--without warping, if desired. (Actually, the research project was initially intended to allow spells to be cast on horses without warping, but that was a goal of the horse-mad elders of the PCs covenant. More rational characters would then try to adapt the effect to humans.)

It doesn't actually break the limit of warping, it simply makes any Hermetic spell considered to be designed for any human target(s). It's a loophole, not a breakthrough.

A magus using Holy Magic would have an easier time at genuinely breaking the Limit. It's easier for them to get to and spend time studying the Fountain in the Purgatory of St. Patrick, and it's not impossible for them to either observe or experience the chariot power of the cherubim, both of which actually reduce accumulated warping. However, it's also possible they wouldn't share the discovery with a bunch of pagans who are rude at gatherings.

4 Likes
16

No need for the remains of Adam -- just the remains of Noah. The Merinta 'Bloodline' target & the Bjornaer 'Secret Name' virtue can also be a powerful combination.

[Edit: Wait a second ... I made a mistake. I thought 'Secret Name' made the mage a member of a specific (new, adopted) family. Apparently not, and now I am wondering where I stumbled across that concept. /Edit]

2 Likes
17

Just the remains of Noah. Good luck, seeker.

18

Have you read the bit (in Ancient Magic p13) about discovering the language of Adam through linguistic research? It seems like examining the descendants of Adam (or Noah) might yield similar insight into what the ancestors might have been like.

3 Likes
19

You're right that it's a Bjornaer thing, but it's actually part of the basic outer mystery rather than requiring anything further:

3 Likes