Pre-play Discussion

I tell you what, you have a magus with a decent Teaching and Communication, and an apprentice who's an Apt Student, teaching him stuff every single season is brutal! I've only advanced him 7½ years, teaching him the basics (Latin to 5, Magic Theory to 5, and one season in every Art but Vim, which got two), and he's already at almost twice as many xp as he should have for a guy his age. Haven't even started on the spells yet, or getting his Arts to where he can pull off the AC range Summon Beaker and Summon Books stuff he pulled off in Bibracte.

Don't forget the infernal agents he might have at his disposal... Or diabolical powers. Or just give yourself the right to handwave certain things. I got to a point where I felt it was close enough and just tweaked what I wanted...

Yeah, it's starting to look like I'm going to have to start buying my handwavium at Sam's now.

I have a game that I play by openrpg (chat room) where the GM realized that characters that played through apprenticeship were much better than those that by the book and did the following: ... _US&pli=1#

This is a detailed season by season model for an apprenticeship and also lists what is available for after apprenticeship for the 3 years that follow. It has made for some interesting results.

There's an NPC in my saga who has been seasonally advanced for his entire life (parens was flirting with Final Twilight for quite some time, so he's received one season of Teaching each year, one season in the library, and two seasons of lab work). He's way butch compared to what we'd expect for a 12 year old apprentice. I've been hankering to get someone to take an apprentice who will be properly enslaved for three seasons per annum, and only receive one season of Teaching, to see how that shapes up-- though I suspect the apprentice will still be above par.

If I ever run another saga, I would revise the base package for apprenticeship to put freshly-Gauntleted magi where they actually would be based on three seasons' exposure and one season teaching.


Yeah, I think the apprentice experience rules seem to assume that the parens isn't really very good. You get 15 xp per year as an apprentice for arts and abilities. Three seasons of exposure for lab work or what have you accounts for six of those. That leave nine points, which is no Teaching ability and a Communication of 0, the +3 for the Teaching Source Quality, and the 6 for having a single student. And, frankly, if you've gone long enough in your Hermetic life to be able to take an apprentice and never put five measly points into Teaching, you don't deserve to have an apprentice. :unamused:

Plus, the teacher gets teaching exposure xp. So after 3 years, you automatically acquire the teaching skill.

ACtually, Standard apprenticeship is 240 xp or 16 xp per year. That is 6 exposure adn then communication 0, teaching 1, single student for the 10 more.

Of course if you start with teaching 1, after 5 years, you are teaching 2, after 8 more years you are teaching 3. EVen strong Paren is 20 xp, which means 14 points which is just teaching 3 or 4 with communication 2-3 (or good teacher merit)

I bet if Medicus and Siobhan put their heads together, they could invent Dementors.


My last season in lab is going to use 5 pawns of vis to boost lab total to invent that spell that lets me put 10 people to sleep at sight range and I can flex it up to 100. (sure it would give the army a point of warping but it is worth it. Get multi-cast everyone in a building is going to sleep so I can sneak in invisibly gather arcane connections, read all the state secrets from the minds and then leave.

"I will not endanger the Order through my actions. Nor will I interfere with the affairs of mundanes and thereby bring ruin on my sodales."

Hmmm...there's a flaw in this plan somewhere, I'm sure of it. I just can't put my finger on it... :wink:

Only if you are caught :slight_smile:.

the sleeping everyone is just for fun (and magic addiction). I could just as easily just invisibly visit all the rooms, grab connections from pillows and read minds when I get home for all the secrets (intangible tunnel then posing silent question).

but yeah, Once Siobhan starts to pose silent questions: she generally has to ask 2-3 questions just to get past the magic addiction.

On the other hand, when flambeau and tytalus and others upset people with their actions, I am the one that can clean things up and calm the mundanes down with some careful memory modifications, selective forgetfulness and so on.

JeanMichelle's character makes me think of the black Cauldron in the Lloyd Alexander books. the deathless warriors. While scotland is a bit north of wales and the Arawn legends, it is close enough (the other place with corpses as warriors is Greece with the dragon's teeth that Jason sowed).

You can do that?

Do we have anyone that can cast the Aegis.

I am considering Siobhan but I suspect taht even with aura and penetration, if she learned the Aegis, she would only have casting total of 16+aura+stress die and then +2 more for penetration. Aura 6 means only penetration of 4+stress die which means a level 20 aegis would only keep out on average MR 10 creatures

Hmmmm, I will have to check, I might have to experiment. That could make things fun (depending on result, that could be why I am looking to join a new covenant.)

If I experment with +3 risk modifier then my lab total is 49+simple die (inventive genius shifts from +3 to +6 and +3 risk modifier) which will have enough but have to see what the extraordinary results are.

LEt's see: Rolling for that is (a 0)
(1 botch die base + 3 risk modifier - 3 gold cord = 1 botch die roll becomes (a 5)

so 0 +3 risk modifier = 3: no extraordinary results so 49+simple die (a 10)
for a 59 and well more than the needed 50.

While not exactly corpses (this may be more up Siobhan's alley), Scotland is supposedly one of the most haunted countries in the world. Plus, there's the Legio IX Hispana that disappeared somewhere in Scotland about a thousand or so years ago (in game-time).

ACtually, fate of the 9th legion is uncertain: there is speculation that it may have been recalled with a general to rome and on to Iuadea to fight the Bar Kochba revolt that drove the romans out for two years before they returned with 6 legions and auxillaries of 6 more (and perhaps even more than that).

The only certain thing was that they were documented as being stationed at York for the last definitive and certain placement of them.

You guys sure do write a lot! T-T

For the record, a thread has proped up about penetration. It also speaks somewhat of Might Strippers.
I advise all those finding the RAW fine on this to go and read it.

  1. And it should be, since we're talking of creatures that, by the RAW, are Princes of Hell, Elder Dragons, or Planetary Spirits. So that's actually, IMO, a pretty good thing, since it means rules = fluff.
  2. Your forgot one thing: Penetration Boosters. This example is only valable for a magus facing such a creature unprepared (in which cases, IMO, it is logical that he should flee). With, say, Penetration 3 and a multiplier of 4, which is, admittedly, not very powerful, you can shave off 12 points out of these. And for weaker magi, Wizard's Communion is always an option. This means that... Magi must actually prepare and plan against the more powerful threats and increase penetration skill instead of going all guns blazing. Do you really think this is a bad thing?

Note also that my proposed fix for multicasting, while keeping its effectiveness untouched vs multiple targets, and lowering its effectiveness vs weaker ones, actually alleviates this vs stronger ones: 3 multicasts lvl 10 DEO would batter such a creature's MM as a single lvl 20 DEO, meaning CT can drop by 10.

So tell me.

Do you actually consider it a bad thing that your character will need to be an archmage to directly, and without any preparation whatsoever, face one of the most powerful princes of hell? Or Stellatus? Or an Astra Planeta?
YMMV, but, IMO, this is how it should be.

Difference is twofold:

  1. The demon gets a defense roll, and finesse vs defense is usually much, much more balanced than Penetration vs MR (see the forum thread, and please, if you disagree, go tell them). He doesn't against Might Strippers
  2. How many 10'*10'*10' boulders do you see lying around everywhere at a given time?
  3. Please, go read the stats of Demons, faeries and Magical creatures. Might 0 power are, to say the least, quite rare.

With my solution, and the Might Soak level proposed by Peregrine, this is impossible: The creatures have Might Soak 10-13, making them immune to a lvl 05 Might Stripper.

So you're against a proposed HR that does what you want AND makes the creatures that are supposed to be the top dogs of Mythic Europe difficult to affect on the fly by all but specialized archmagi, requiring weaker magi to cooperate (wizard's communion) or seek arcane connections?

Arya... Have you read my simple examples?

This is a general issue, whatever the power level of the creatures.
Take for exemple Laetitia.

Perdo 05, Vim 12, Sta 01, Pen 1
Nothing exceptional and her penetration is very weak. This is gauntlet-level power, not even optimized.

Let's say she decides to invest a little in PeVi.
She spends 1 season learning DEO 05
She spends 1 season learning Mastery 01
She spends 1 season upping penetration to 02 (10xp)
Her penetration without being prepared is Pe 05 + Vi 12 + Sta 01 + Pen 02 + Mastery 01 + die - 05 deo - 2 copies = 14 + die, for a loss of 10 might per turn. She thus has reasonable chances against Might 20 critters. That's already quite powerful IMO.

Say there's a Dragon around. Not a primeval force of nature like Stellatus but something quite powerful nonetheless, like Arkliss Dragon of the Fens (RoP: M p75), with MM 22. Ok, let's say he's bigger, badder, and has MM30. She decides to get rid of it
She spends 2 more seasons on that ever-useful ability, Penetration, and gets it to 03.
She manages to get an AC (say, poo, or saliva), use sympathetic connection... for a Pen multiplier of x5. Her penetration gets to 27+die.

Now, take RoP: M and read what it says about what Might 20 and 30 are supposed to be. Read RoP: tI too.

  1. Barring aside other objections (and I have some), Mastery 3 = 30 XP. That's 6 seasons of practice, way enough to invent the spell with 1 more magnitude (100-1000 people, assuming this is not deemed ritual)) and have time to spare. If anything, this is not efficient at all.
  2. Fine IMO, well worth the investment, and not game-breaking at all.
  3. And? On multiple targets, this is perfect IMO. On a single target, effect = multiple sleep spells = multiple "make hair blond" = nill. Sometimes, multiple spells on 1 target achieve nothing more.

Multiple casting on different targets is not overpowered.
The problem is when multicasting on a single target. And my solution solves that single problem, while being coherent with the general Ars tendency of "x times something does not means x times the damage".
Answer this question no one answered: How do you resolve a player having a CrReTe spell that creates and throws a huge group (+1 size) of crystal darts to a single target?

Totally agreed

I am missing something.
Sleep spell, Group Target => 10 people.
How do you plan to get it to 100? If wanting FFM to increase the Size, that's normally not possible (it changes Range, Duration or Target, and that's all).

Then, to target everyone in a building, Group target wouldn't work, for evident reasons (if only the most basic: How do you perceive your target?). You'd need T: Structure.

I can flex group to structure to get everyone in a building.

I can flex group to group+1 (100 people), that is change of target of magnitude of 5 and can target a group out in the open. I can also leave it at 10 people and flex sight to arcane connection to get everyone in a group where I have arcane connection to someone in the group.

Flex formulaic magic just requires being clever and designing your spells right. The big trick is always that you can't go from ind to group with it.