Project Orion - Hermetic flight by explosion

I was reading through the "cool concepts for your least favorite house" threads and came across this post: Cool concepts for your least favorite House:

I decided to reply in a new topic in order to not pollute the original thread with off-topic discussion about the nature of explosion powered flight in ME.

I have to say: This is a great idea!
... I mean it is a terrible idea, but a hilariously terrible idea.

This idea has such potential and such raw idiotic power It almost makes me want to retire my current character to play a flying exploding magus.

Just try to imagine hearing a series of progessively louder bangs, followed by a person - clothes singed and face covered in soot - come zooming by through the air.
Imagine the power of landing at tribunal on a tail of explosions in the sky. There is probably few surer ways to make a name for oneself. Not a good name, but a notorious name. "Oooh thats just Explosus ex Flambeau, I advise you dont stand near to him at any time. Yeah he always looks like that".

From a balance perspective this idea looks just fine to me.
You can achieve the same result (powered flight), by a number of means, and I have trouble imagining a worse way of flying or transporting oneself.
You can turn into a flying creature, you can enchant an object to fly and use it as a mount, you can make friends with a magical creature capable of flight and carrying humans, you can teleport, or perhaps a close runner up in flashiness and impractiability you can turn into lightning and strike your destination.

for this to work you need:
A ward against fire and/or explosions
A spell that creates an explosion powerful enough to propel you through the air
and a means to land(!) (perhaps a spell to lessen the impact of gravity, or a ward against fall damage (if such thing can be made)).

This is a pretty big investment of resources compared with the other available options. Even then explosion powered flight has some pretty serious drawbacks.

You cannot take off near to anyone or anything that you like, since they would blow up.
If you plan on using explosions to cushion your fall (is that even possible?) you also cannot land near to anything or anyone you dont want to kill/destroy.
This method of flight is about as subtle as it sounds, and everyone for miles around will know exactly where you are, and where you are going. Soon enough they will also know who you are by reputation alone.
You will inevitably acquire a reputation, not a good reputation either. most likely as the mad flying magus (both among mundanes and magi).

I would also judge that this method requires a pretty good finesse roll, in order to position the explosion just right, so that it propels you upwards, and forwards, as opposed to only one, or neither of those. If it were simply a case of casting one exploding spell I think it would be fine, but for a whole series. As a SG I would probably rule something like getting a long term fatigue level per hour or half-hour of flight from the intense concentration required, along with being subjected to a constant series of violent accelerations.

IMO this is a similar drawback to lightning-based teleportation, which requires you to blow up your destination and also is as unsubtle as you can imagine.

But I got to say, I love it. This concept is just so wild that I cannot but love it, despite how hilariously bad the idea is (or more likely because of it).

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What I don't quite get is how a magus can usefully combine explosions meant to move him, with wards meant to prevent those explosions from hitting him.

I agree that it requires a friendly interpretation of the rules, but to me it is not inconceivable that a magus might be protected from the direct damage of an explosion without being protected from all effects of it. (though it requires that the magus not resist the explosion with magic resistance).

This essentially requires a ward against specifically the damage caused by the explosion.

Ultimately whether or not this is all possible in game comes down to whether or not the troupe wants it work. If the answer is yes, then it requires that a whole host of other questions also be answered with a "yes".

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I just love the title of the project. :-/

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I could see an argument that a Greater Immunity to Fire might still allow one to get knocked around by more explosive fires. I think a CrIg[Au] with explosive force is not unreasonable, even if I don't plan on it in my saga.

The thing is that an explosion is not actually an ignem effect. A concusion wave is an aurum effect. On the other hand you could (depending on how you are reading the world physics) conceivably construct a steam ricket based on the principles of a Hiro engine. It would requires creo aquam to keep it supplied for steam and creo ignem to convert that water to steam, but it is certainly conceivable.

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Converting water to steam is easy with MuAq, however, having the ratio 1 to 800 (roughly) converting liquid water to steam is modern thermodynamic, not aligned with Mythic Europe physic, so the mage will have to do quite some trial and error to find the proper level/magnitude to get some propelling effect and some discussion & handwavium with your troupe and SG will be required.

There may also be a question as to whether water converted to steam by magic rather than with heat would be able to build pressure or not.

What is your source for that?

As far as I am concerned there are no official rules for creating explosions with magic.

thus the closest thing we can say is either: The art for creating an explosion/concussion wave is none of them, or alternatively the art for creating an explosion/concussion wave is the one we chose it is. "We" in this case being a group out at the table who wants to clarify how to make explosions by magic.

Personally I think Ignem is the obvious candidate.

Because Ignem burns things, it doesn't push things. Unlike Auram, Terram and Aquam, which can all push. IRL what generates blow back is, to simplify things, contraction and expansion of gas - the flame is merely the trigger. In ars, since modern physics is irrelevant, I'd simply point you towards Ignem guidelines and example spells. Can you find one Ignem guideline that you believe will move a target by generating an impactful fire? Let me give you a hint. There's none unless you add Muto and an appropriate requisite. Case in point: the most powerful Ignem spells. Dive of the Dying Phoenix "explodes on impact". It does damage. The target isn't thrown back. Last Flight of the Phoenix literally melts steel within 4 pace. That's excessively hot. A target at point blank isn't thrown back. Conflagrative Servant - note how due to its lack of substance, it cannot move things until Ranulf follows through with a MuIg(Te) effect. There is simply no Ignem effect that generate a sort of shockwave, that we modern players would associate with an explosion, even if the heat and flame that is generated by the spell ressembles an explosion. Notice, on the other hand, how incredibly easy it is to move a target using Auram. The blowback / shockwave / concussion wave you associate with an explosion are not that different from a momentary base 3 or base 5 Creo auram guideline that generates strong wind, and there are a ton of example spells that push someone away, throw him on the ground or fling him in the air. Once you've realised that you need Auram to do the blowback thing, you'll realise one thing. Yes, you can create a flight spell that has ignem into it, but the truth is you've added several magnitudes and gained no speed or additional control. You've just succeeded at making your flight spell dangerous for being near you.

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Actually, I think that the closest thing to an "explosion" in vanilla Hermetic magic is the shockwave from a lightning bolt (see Incantation of Lightning). So, yes, Auram - though not quite for the same reason brought forth by silveroak and temprobe.

That said, there's something to be said in favour of Ignem: see ToME, p.155.

Even though that section is rather poor in terms of mechanical strength: on the one hand it makes it incredibly easy to create an explosion in a mill, on the other hand it just handwaves away the possibility of creating a flour-based explosion outside of a mill "because it would require too much finesse". Which contradicts most other craftmagic rules.

I know in the other tread I was saying there must be some explosions in Medieval Europe. With the ability of magic in Mythic Europe, explosions would be easy to generate, however, looking at the comments in this thread, I think the shock wave elements is most likely to fit in to Aurum.

Nothing to stop you deciding in your Mythic Europe one can make Ignem based explosions.