Oak was certainly more colorful. If there was a way to define the focus so that it groups together a few tree types, that would be good.
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Pliny the Elder, in his Natural History, has a chapter on 'Forest Trees and Botany', which included the oak. Other chapters include Exotic Trees, The Vine, Olive and Other Fruit Trees, and Other Useful Plants. Since he is still the authority on natural philosophy, you could argue that 'Forest Trees' (excluding fruit trees) are a family and may be used for a focus. I liked Oak Wood (or even Oaks) better myself.
The only difficulty with the Forest Tree route is that I don't have a list handy. Maybe the 'Trees of Germany' insert in GoTF, p.33, can serve as the basis (excluding the Apple Tree and maybe others).
There's also the osprey and the cormoran, but they have no specific links to oaks (as opposed to any tree that happens to be handy).
OK, I will stick with Oak or go with the limited range suggested by Arthur. Thanks. the advantage of the larger family suggested by Arthur is that other woods are used in other parts of the ship (like the planks for the cover or the main mast) but forest trees seems extremely abusive to me. I will sleep on this.
The cormorant and osprey have been investigated (I made quite some bird research in the past few days!) but they were discarded because ospreys have no relation with trees (they nest in rocky outcrops, for example) and the cormorant is a colony nester in the ground and has no relation with trees either. In that sense they are as suitable as the seagull. I was trying to reconcile the concept with an oak bird that could also fly on water, and the eagle seems the most likely candidate. The sparrowhawk is better as a forest bird concept. Ah, the wonders of thinking too much about something :mrgreen: I think I will stick with the sparrowhawk and use a medium raptor as a profile (if ever needed).
I am removing the spell mastery virtue and probably taking well travelled to represent his time as a peregrinator (or nothing, and removing a flaw).
I would suggest starting with the stats from the spell Lord of the Trees (ArM5 p.139) and lowering them to reflect a human-sized statute. My initial gut feeling would be Init +2, Attack +5, Defense +4, Damage +8 and Soak +12 for Size 0. Boosting the size by 1 would modify stats as normal (-1 Init, +2 Damage).
Rationale to this is:
Init: They're simply slow.
Attack: They don't have a weapon skill, they simply use their arms ar clubs. That is still the equivalent of a score of 3 in Brawl.
Defense: Again, this is based on a club and the equivalent of a score of 3 in Brawl. And they just don't protect themselves much anyway.
Damage: A club does +3, so this is the equivalent of a +5 in Strength.
Soak: Full chain mail gives a protection of 9, so they are better than that.
And yes, I knoew you would like my plan. you said character driven stories, so I was planning on that And I have not included the OoH as a player yet :mrgreen:
I've no problem with trying to convince the local, except perhaps that word might spread to the mainland before we are ready. Ideally we'd convince them to stay quiet at the same time.
Depending on how the covenant is built, we might be able to give you a place to raise one oak where it won't be seen. One oak doesn't sounds like much, but if you raise it in one night (hey, Sun duration works at night too !), we chop it up the following day, you do another the next night... that's still a lot of wood.
That is an option. I planned to have a GLADE of trees soon, though. Call me greedy :mrgreen: But I can accomodate. That will all be discussed in character, so no problems here
How big do you consider an oak "brought to maturity" buy the spell?
In Germany, we are probably talking about sessile oak (Quercus petraea), which grows up to 20-40m. My guess is that maturity is reached at half that size, so you'd get trees about 10m in height. That probably translates to log of about 10-12 inches in diameter.
The French article of Wikipedia fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercus_petraea says this specie of oak (there are a lot) starts bearing acorn at 60 to 70 years.
I will stick with Oak. I was not aware that there were so many kinds before looking into this either! Ars really improves your knowledge
For the effect I was thinking about the Asterix Ars Magica Saga where Panoramix re-plants oak trees in a clearing made by the Romans. They grow to be full, well rugged trees in about... half a second, so he is using a higher (level 40) Herbam guideline :mrgreen: The trees he creates are like the ones that the Romans tore down. they are about a pace across. IIRC it is in one of the books where Caesar is around. So I would say that 20-ish metres high sounds right. Most of the upper part is not usable, so the usable trunk will be around 5-10 metres, suitable for construction. Or the 20-year old tree presented by halancar.
I do not think this is limited to an Individual of herbam. A full mature tree is way larger than an individual of herbam, so limiting it to an Individual would create bonsais. I would say that the target of the spell is the acorn, not the final tree. If you think it requires size increments (it would require +3 size), then I cannot have the spell, and creating trees will be ritual magic. Considering what you get for a level 45-60 spell, I think that it is a little bit extreme having to add size increments here.
It just hit me that I can have the same spell at D:concentration costing 2 hours to grow the same tree instead of a full night. (B20 instead of 15, +1 Touch, +1 Conc). Weird.
There's a lot of different species, but how many of them are native to Europe? It seemed to me that most of the species were native to America or Asia.
I leave it up to Xavi to decide how wide his focus will be (only oak or the trio of beech/chestnut/oak). It's not like it will have a major impact on the saga.
IMO, this is the same as asking: does changing the size of a target break a spell? I don't remember seeing a canonical answer to that question.
I'm inclined to say that it doesn't. In this case, we are also talking about a Base 15 guideline. That's powerful magic.
Something we forgot about is also that, since this is a level 30 spell, the resulting oak will suffer from Warping. It may only be 1 point, but it is something to remember if that wood is use to craft ships or covenant buildings.
Perhaps, but you'd need a score of 8 in Concentration to be able to sustain it for 2 hours. ArM5 p.82 mentiones a maximum of fifteen minutes for every point you have in the Concentration Ability.
Still, if you lose your concentration, you just end up with a smaller tree.
For the Sun-duration spell, I'll go with a 20-meter oak tree as the upper limit. Quality of the soil may be a factor, as you are speeding up the growth of the tree. So poor soil may stunt the tree's growth somewhat -- if not as much as if was growing naturally.
At least three just off the top of my head, and I'm not even looking at Wikipedia at the moment
That warping point it the least a covenants' oak beams have to worry about. It's a wonder the towers in truly old covenants don't just uproot themselves and leave after a couple of centuries
I will sleep on the oak or tree-triad thing. And yes, it will not have a major impact at all.
I am liking the final design. The discussion is helping me shape the character, so i have a much clearer idea on how to rewrite the background. Thanks guys.
I'm keenly aware that I'm saying no to a lot of stuff, or raise a lot of questions/objections. But I think it's part of the role of the storyguide. It's a way of shaping the universe in which the stories will take place. I'm trying to strike a certain balance, and hope that you guys will let me know if I'm being too restrictive.
I missed the quiver thing. I have no problems with it having a load of 1. What I dislike is the Load for a staff. Load 2? COme on! A staff is basically a WALKING AID as well as a weapon! But that is me.
Remember that once I have a finished the character he has to learn WC and Aegis as we agreed He has a ReVi lab total of 18 (2+3+9+4), so he can learn either at level 20 in one season if he has a normal lab and an aura of 2 or more. I assume any covenant will have a higher level.
Well, it's not just a cane (that would count as a club), it's a staff, a great weapon meant to be used two-handed, so of course it has a certain weight to it. Not to mention the sheer size. Of course it will penalize you if you run or swim or try to play music while carrying it. On the plus side, that load of 2 doesn't count if you are actually fighting with it. And if it comes to spellcasting, well, there's that subtle technique called 'letting go' where you start by opening your hands...
Oh, and don't forget that tried and true technique for reducing encumbrance called a grog
Yup, the grog technique is one I have developed to great results in the past. It still bothers me because it is basically a walking aid as well as a weapon. That it penalizes you is no problem, but the load of 2 is (IMO) excessive. I can live with it in any case, but it makes me grimmace. But well, the whole weapons table seems made rolling a D8-1, since it is full of dubious assumptions, so no biggie. :mrgreen:
I edited the first post with some changes. Nothing that we had not discussed before. Now I have Intrigue More because I want to shake the order than for being a tytalus, in any case. Or both.
Could you describe to me what you consider to be under a clear sky? Does being indoors affect this?
Does the specialty refer to the faries of the Rhine River, or to those of the Rhine Tribunal as a whole?
I don't think the specialty can be a technique. From ArM5 p. 65: "Specialties: grace, presicion, any one Form.
You wanted to change the name? Also, you could probably integrate the effect of the focus into the casting bonus, since the spell is fully covered by your focus.
You mention carving the statues. They will be crude, considering his specific mundane skills (Profession: Carpenter 2 and Profession: Shipwright 2) or even magical skills (Finesse 2), they will be fairly crude. Not works of art worthy of adorning a proper ship, but clumsy lumps of wood that are functional.
Looks like the character is pretty much complete.
If you want to start thinking about his activities for a few years between his Gauntlet and his joining up with the others at the new covenant, we can advance him 2-3 years. That will include learning Aegis of the Hearth and either learning or copying a version of Ritual's Communion, as well as gathering some resources.
The spell to carve them is Hewn the Wooden Servant (ReHe10). B5, +1 touch.
Per+finesse roll:
botch = ruined statue.
1 to 5: statue made, but it is rather uggly and (specially) frail, so cannot be used for Wood Golem
6+ serviceable statue, even if not particularly pretty.
I guess that for good results I need a 12+ or more. But I plan to invest in Finesse before going that road Right now I create functional statues and I am happy with that.
The spell name is already changed. It did read Grove before. I prefer Glade. Minor alteration
For advancing the character, I need to know the kind of resources that I will have available. Books, vis, spells? Can I invent spells of my own? Advancing him a year would be enough for me. 2 seasons for WC and Aegis from lab texts and 2 other seasons "doing stuff". That will also prevent him jumping forward from the other magi, so I think it will be OK Unless you all decide that advancing him 3 years will be better.
And I have not included the OoH as a player yet :mrgreen:
