Ok Learned Magician (or variant thereof) it is; and no granting Virtues I don't have with my magic.
Perhaps part of initiating Parma Magica also gives members Flawed Parma Magica depending on what hedge tradition they belong to reflect an incomplete understanding of the original Bonisagus Parma Magica.
EDIT: Would it be acceptable to make a character as per the Gifted Companion rules in Societates (Ex Miscellenea)?
Most traditions have individual methods of building Gifted members, the Societates rules are a pretty hard nerf-bat to those, meant to accompany learning the Hermetic Arts.
Yes, but my proposed character isn't a part of any of the traditions found in HMRE or Rival Magic. Closest I could find was the rules on Gifted Companions.
I see. Pursuing the forest paths but that doesn't give you a baseline tradition. They seem to be built around enhancing Hermetics.
Reading up on it I had a thought though: Maybe a Spirit Votary, whose pact is with the forest itself? Then when you pursue the paths and they give you mmf's those can be focus powers instead?
Just a suggestion, I know you didn't ask for such but thought I'd share.
Ah you mean the various Hedge tradition Techniques and Forms?
I know all about the Spirity Votaries. I might actually take a Spiritual Pact, but not be a Spirit Votary.
I just meant that the paths that are already spelled out give things like mmf and control of twilight which aren't necessarily useful for non-hermetics.
That is an issue; the Forest Path is meant to be complement a tradition, not form one of itself. MMF does kind of work for hedgies (i think they made a potent sorcery virtue somewhere that is the explict swap) and most traditions have twilight equivalents, so it shouldn't be too hard to adapt the paths...but the paths were never intended to be the whole of the character.
The Forest Paths are, in essence, a form of Mystery Cult initiation, except that you replace the mystagogue with genii locorum.
Push comes to shove, as I mentioned earlier, I could always just make a variant Gruagachan
There is the provision for you to make up your own. And I think gaining Magical Foci as Focus Powers makes sense mechanically, and after a few paths with a few focus powers you do end up with something that looks like a tradition.
Ok, there are around 60 fully defined hedge magical traditions in the official books. And others are hinted at and can be improved on (like the ones in the Exmiscellanea section). Still, there are suggestions to play characters that do not belong to any of these. I am not opposed to that, just curious. The big question:
What do you want form a hedge magic saga?
It is important to get an newer in order to build something so that we are all on the same page. Otherwise it can flounder, and I would prefer not to have that
Triamore is centered around mundane politics, (covenants being a mundane vassal or not, and fights between mundanes around Triamore), belonging or not to the Lotharingian tribunal project (I plan to downplay that, making Daria NOT the leader of the idea so that the PC can decide if they want to participate or not) and some cursory stuff like the 3 sisters. The Ardennes as a playing area with more savage stuff is also there to be explored, as well as the nearby cities if you want a more urban approach.
We can also drop that and go for a Rhine gorge saga if we want more supernatural stuff, but I like stablished covenants since it allows you to start with the big stuff not having to deal with setting up shop.
Now, what kind of stuff do you want?
- exploring your tradition
- the struggles of Triamore in mundane politics
- the struggles of Triamore in hermetic politics.
- big supernatural stories (lots of creatures with might and Spellcasters).
- a limited presence of the supernatural (more mundane saga)
- an story to shake the foundation's not the Order... (That last bit is still WIP since I have no clear idea here).
- low level
Plot_device: Elementalist (+mechanics of heron?).
MalakhGlitch. Likes forest paths. Official starting date as well.
Darkwing: witches and vitkir (gruagach and learned magicians as secondary).
DeedNay: Learned Magician.
Perfect. 4 disparate traditions, but 2 are educated (suitable for a library-centric covenant), witches are everywhere and MalakhGlitch seems to want to build something belonging to the forests.
@MalakhGlitch Regarding Gifted Companions (just reread the section) seems contrary to the saga approach. The whole idea is that there is no hermetic theory. The order of Hermes is composed of a disparity of hedge traditions, so having a bad reputation for being a hedgie would be weird I prefer that we take whole traditions instead of a grocery list of diverse abilities. As a gifted hedgie, you can still have 10 points of virtues and flaws, so no need for further points I would say. In a sense, everybody is an Exmiscellanea in this saga. Forget about the houses. Some very small traditions belonging to the founders remain (like the summoners of spirits of Trianoma, Tytalus and Tremere), but most people in the Order are just different traditions that decided to join instead of dying They joined the Order, not a specific house, and so the Order has, say 50 different traditions in its midst, with a lot of people saying they are from different traditions even if mechanically are the same. Do not go tell a necromancer that he is a tremere.
In any case, can we know what do you plan to build conceptually? Thanks.
I am specifically avoiding reading Triamore, but it sounds like we could get both varieties of politics (Mundane and Hermetic) as well as some fun with supernatural forces? I like that as the focal point for the saga; and my individual character may have the goal of trying to create a broader tradition of Elementalism, now that they aren't overshadowed by the Order and have freedom to expand and flourish.
I have also avoided reading Triamore, but perhaps I should read it now. As to the focus, I like the thought about balancing mundane politics, hermetic politics, and the supernatural. However, I also like the idea of shaking the Order, perhaps by rediscovering Bonisagus' Magic Theory, Mercurian Magic, or Diedne Magic.
@Xavi I will look around more to see if there's a tradition that fits well.
EDIT: Or are we allowed to come up with our own traditions as per HMRE?
It is not a problem for you all to read Triamore. In fact I would encourage it since I assumed all of you had access to the material.
We are taking it as a stepping stone but we will change things on the setting. It is the (huge!) paradigmatic castle on a hill by the magical (Ardennes) forest and give it a spin: unfinished castle without right of crenellation, badly integrated in the surrounding area (major mundane politics hook), Lotharingian tribunal leader (major hermetic politics hook) and some other things.
I had not thought about about traditions that were not (at least heavily) based on existing traditions (like having a folk witch changing Curse for Hex, or Healing for Mythic Herbalism, and adding Entrancement to the mix) but I am open to ideas. I would try to avoid designing traditions from scratch myself, basically because it is more work and I have nonidea where it can lead us. If you want to try go ahead. In general the idea of the whole saga is to see how a hedge magic approach would deal with problems where hermetic magic just bludgeons through.
The other thing about asking for a concept is because I want to see what you expect here as a character development goal. I need to have an idea of what attracts you. I need this in order to integrate it into the narrative.
BTW, if you have access to Sub Rosa they have an article on a Hedge Magic campaign in issue 19
EDIT: @Xavi I was thinking of doing something along the line of the Exsules from GotF with Nature Lore, Awakening, Wildling and Guardian of Nature as Favored Abilities as well as the ability to bind a Familiar.
Ah, an orignal Merinita, a forestry type with a tiara. Nice
Now I see why you want the forest paths. the only change I would make is that this tradition can exist within the hedgie order of hermes without being secret at all, even if warfare with the Quendalon line might be a thing. In fact I would call your line the Merinita line and Quendalon's split, well, the followers of Quendalon.
Binding a familiar can be done using the folk witch rules (animal ken) if we do not find anything better. I will have to review your other abilities.
I am not that knowledgeable in Magic V&F to locate all the one syou listed. Would you mind pointing them up. Nature Lore I assume is the same as the Forst Lore from GotF. where are the others? Thanks
Hmmm.... If we end up with Elementalists, followers of primal nature, gruagachan and learned magicians I think I can spin a tale of learned guys and forestry Ardennes types. Seems legit.
I was thinking I could use either Animal Ken or Nature Lore for binding a Familiar. Nature Lore, Awakening, Wildling and Guardian of Nature can be found in HoH:MC, p.102+
Read those. Sound cool. Awakening certainly should be allowed to bind a familiar.
What I see is that they do not grant you much in the way of magical power. yes, you can commune with nature, have a friendly forest, extract vis, awaken a thing of nature and bind with it, and even become one with the forest (or the lake or whatever), but you do not have much magical skills there. These are clearly support skills thought for a hermetic magus and it tells. Anything I am missing?
A saga with all hedgies in Triamore, and in early 13th century, looks very interesting to me. I have waited for the character concepts to come forward. These can fit with a Triamore as I would like it: between the archbishop and the deep green forest. The Hermetic politics of Triamore - as written between Tremere and Lotharingians - would require a lot of adapting to the new world with no Order or a seriously weakened one.
I might offer a character addressing the Dominion. A Gifted scholar practicing Ars Notoria and - perhaps - some experimental philosophy, without True Faith. He could be a Franciscan priest from Paris or an Augustinian canon from Armagh. He would certainly put the chapel of Lucian's Folly to use, offer services as a confessor and medic, and try to keep the archbishop of Liége out of Triamore.