Quesitor spell - looking for SG advice

I've got a bit of a problem adjudicating an effect:

My first reaction is that its beyond the bounds of Hermetic magic, but did some more thinking. I don't necessary want to say, 'no', but there are a few things that need to be ironed out.

  1. The target is the list of crimes, so some form of Intellego Imaginem to read and comprehend the description of the crimes. There'd have to be a copy of the appropriate Codes too, I assume.

  2. The mechanism behind the judging of what constitutes an appropriate punishment. The closest effect to this is the Divine power of Understanding - beyond Hermetic bounds. So how to bring this clearly into Hermetic bounds?

I mean, what effects can cause a spell to think and reason?

Another way to think about this spell is as a variation of Posing the Silent Question with R: Touch, but even so the target isn't really Mentem (since its not a mind), but a book (or collection of books). But can a spell read and then provide judgment?

The easiest way to present the effect is that the spell refreshes the caster's memory of all pertinent materials regarding the crimes (citations and what-not from the Peripheral Code), basically a method of having a photographic memory). This would be an InMe effect and is easiest to create, but has the limitation that it only recalls memories from books that have been read and leaves judgment up to the caster.

The "easy way" is my fall-back position, but I wanted to get opinions from the board about how to create the effect within Hermetic bounds and as originally desired by the player?


I think you're on the right track, and altho' there may be rules for "intelligent" items, I don't think one can actually reason.

Your best bet is in improving the mage's mental faculty for the process, either with In or Cr Intellego.

Also, you could create something like a "group think" spell, where some connection is made to all the Quaesitores, or a sub-group of them, and an "objective consensus" is reached via magical handwaving, i.e. the average opinion of each.

However, short of a Tribunal, I'm not sure when this spell would be used. "In the field", a Quaesitore is usually(?) either investigating a suspected transgressor or hunting a convicted one (even if convicted in absentia) - rarely are they given the powers of jury and executioner as well as those of police. It's usually either 1) bring 'em back alive, 2) dead or alive, or 3) terminate with extreme prejudice - anything less is up to a Tribunal to decide, neh?

AFAIK, no.

And, IMO, this would open a huuuuge pandora's box.

However, a spell could very well exist that temporarily refreshes a quaesitor's memory of the code, helps him focus his thoughts on the case at hands... thus helping him passing judgment.

But an "automatic hermetic code judgment" spell? Outside the bonds of hermetic magic, IMO.

Yes, I would agree with all, except that I'd consider even a spell to replenish long-lost memories out of bounds or very, very difficult.

I would not get caught up with the physical description, though. I'd simply write it down as an In(Cr)Me spell of Personal range, and let the weights and blindfold and so on be part of the caster's sigil & casting shticks.

Obtaining a Just solution would only be possible through Divine powers.

I would design it another way:

The spell allows THE QUESITOR to make up his mind about a certain issue. The spell is an IntMe spell. What it does is search for ONLY the relevant information in the Quaesitor's head, ignoring stuff like feelings and animosity that might bias the quaesitor's judgement.

Under those circumstances, I think it can work. However, the spell might be dependant on the ammount of hermetic lore (law) that the quaesitor is able to amass, and his personal reading of the laws (transitionalists vs traditionalists).

or maybe it can only come up with a strict reading of the law, so it is only really suitable for a traditionallist reading. This is why transitionalists might consider it to be a bad spell to use, or consider only a trend, not a real helper here.

Take in mind that it does not differentiate good from bad, but only gives an indication of the PUNISHMENT that should be applied by a strict reading of the law.

In fact, I consider it to be a cool idea for a judge. :slight_smile: Maybe you can only have it if you are a quaesitor or have an hermetic law rating of 5+ (or 4+)?


I see this as Creo Mentem, straight and simple; the caster cannot use magic to arrive at perfect justice, but can certainly gain a better understanding of the case, the evidence, the testimony and the law, thereby reaching a more perfect justice.

The list of crimes is just parchment and ink to Hermetic Magic, rather than the crimes themselves. They are not an Arcane Connection to the crimes either.

A CrMe spell can make a person (slightly) smarter, but that does nothing directly for sorting through facts, nor the process of "reasoning". Intelligence is not a measure of Wisdom, which is in part what we are seeking here, if something less than Salomonic. Creo can heal, or make something a Platonically better example of itself, but unless you already know what "thoughts" to place in the Quaesitore's mind*, it isn't going to "create" the correct ones.

Intellego is the closest Technique that exists regarding analyzing facts, as a Quaesitore knows them, for "cutting through the confusion of social interaction" and "discovering the truth of a statement", possibly even if that statement may be a premise or conclusion in the mind of the caster.

But this spell is going outside the Guidelines here, so it's possible that both might be needed, the one to bring forth the relevant facts, the other to perfect the mind's analysis of them.

(* - It could be an interesting subplot for a slightly fanatic Quaesitore to plant such a spell in canon, with his own slant on exactly what constituted "correct" thinking. Plant that in with a few other spells as a gift or find, and with a different overt description attached, and let them disseminate across the Order...)

It could also be argued that Rego is the technique tu use. You do not acquire knowledge3 but want it to be 100% correctly classiffied and ponderate din your own mind so you can reach an appropiate cobnclusion in the punishment to be applied. With rego you can keep the bias out of your mind by keeping a perfectly calm mental state.


Oooh, ooog, it's like the candle thingie!

"Perdo is the technique to use. You must eliminate all emotion and predispositions to judge the matter on its own merits, unwavered by the frailties of human so-called reasoning."

"Muto is the technique to use. You are attempting to change your mind into that of an Angel of Justice, contemplating the Truth - a most unnatural change."


Which would of course require Vim as a requisite Form, right?

Since the OoH does not know how the mind of an angel works, I don't think Muto would fly IMS.

Neither would perdo since you can only become worse using perdo.

The other 3 techniques can fly without problems :slight_smile:

But yes, it is the candle thingy once again. Don't you love the magic system? :wink: :slight_smile:



PS: It has been suggested that PerdoTerram might be a good way to blow out a candle flame by a player IMS: just collapse the building on top of the candle.