Question about how MR works with magical objects

[JadeFox]

A player in my troupe (namely me ^_^) just proposed the following spell. Unfortunately, this spell caused a line of discussion that leaves us with a long, long list of questions about how MR works that are relevant to more then just this. After some ineffectual arguing about and checking of the examples, we decided to post it to the forum.

Crushing Embrace of Deadly Sand (CrTe 30. Base 1, +2 Voice, +1 Conc, +6 Size)

This spell summons a 360x360x360 foot cube of sand, wherever the caster indicates. Although the sand appears in a cube, it is neither specially bound that way, nor resistant to gravity. As soon as it appears, it falls (if in mid air) and then quickly collapses into a great pile. In the unlikely event being crushed under 46 million pounds of sand doesn't instantly kill everyone in the area of effect (say, because they have Terram MR), suffocation quickly sets in, making this spell deadly even to magical creatures or Parma'ed magi.

This leads us to the following questions:

1. If the magus is buried under all this sand, can he move around unhindered?
   1a) If so, could a magus actually encased in solid stone that didn't pen move around unhindered? If so, does he actually step out of the stone, or does the stone actually shatter?
   1b) If he isn't hindered by any weight of non-pen'ing stone, what happens if someone drops a magical building on him? Could the magus pick it up superman style to get out? Would he just shatter the whole building with his mighty -1 STR?
   1c) If he tried to throw said building, would it just slide to the ground with a heavy crunch ahead of him or would it be thrown?
2. Landing on magical spikes does no spike damage, only falling. What if a magus lands on a magically created mattress? Or a bunch of magical feathers?
3. What about magical air? Could you create a room full of magical, pure air and a magus inside would asphyxiate because the magically created substance can't interact with him?

[Ultraviolet]

2. The magical pile of feathers would not affect the magus
3. Erh, tricky! Who's to say, that the magic air completely replaces the natural air? Otherwise, I'd say the magical air is not invasive and trying to pass through the Parma, so I'd say the magus breathes ok.

[JadeFox]

"Not Affect" in what sense?

[Paris_Sophia]

Haha, always a nice discussion. >> What are you trying to do?

If you are munchkinning your way into a cheap maguskiller spell, just go and play DnD.

If you just want to play a nice game: if there's no targetting involved, magic resistance will stop the effect. This is not true for positive effects.
If you drop a magic stone bridge on someone it bounces off MR. If you drop onto a magic stone bridge, it will stop you (you do take the falling damage).

[ezzelino]

I'll try to answer to the best of my understanding. In the past few weeks our group has had a TON of discussions on MR and I believe I now grasp the idea fairly well.

@JadeFox

This leads us to the following questions:

1. If the magus is buried under all this sand, can he move around unhindered?

No. I think there is an example in the very corebook - you can encase someone in ice or something, and he is blocked, without any chance to resist magically. Of course, in the case of a smallish amount of ice (but not that of the 360x360x360 foot cube of sand!) you'd need a pretty high Finesse roll, particularly if the target was moving quickly!

@JadeFox

1a) If so, could a magus actually encased in solid stone that didn't pen move around unhindered?

No, see above.

@JadeFox

1b) If he isn't hindered by any weight of non-pen'ing stone, what happens if someone drops a magical building on him? Could the magus pick it up superman style to get out?

No, not pick it up. He would not be able to lift it, but the magical building would not crush him down either. Think of the mage being encased into an indestructible, ultra-light armor that cannot be pushed in any way from the outside - but it's not an active exoskeleton, so it can't itself push with strength greater than that of the magus.

@JadeFox

Would he just shatter the whole building with his mighty -1 STR?

Well, it's not an issue of strength for the magus. Most buildings are not designed to resist the stress of resting on the tip of something so small as a human, so the magus would probably "break through" the bottom floor of the buildiing - just as a large, very durable spike would. On the other hand, magical buildings can be quite durable, and if sufficiently so the building could probably be balanced on the top of the magus' head (or upstretched arms - but the arms would need to be upstretched before coming in contact with the building!)

@JadeFox

1c) If he tried to throw said building, would it just slide to the ground with a heavy crunch ahead of him

Yes.

@JadeFox

2. Landing on magical spikes does no spike damage, only falling. What if a magus lands on a magically created mattress? Or a bunch of magical feathers?

Those would soften the fall. Again, it's useful to think of Parma as an indestructible armor in regards to magic stuff. You fall with your armor on top of the spikes, they do not pierce it. You fall onto a martress, it softens the blow.

@JadeFox

3. What about magical air? Could you create a room full of magical, pure air and a magus inside would asphyxiate because the magically created substance can't interact with him?

Technically, yes. However, it does take some time for a person to start suffering from lack of air. I just tried, and I have no trouble of holding my breath for 30 seconds even without any former preparation such as drawing a big breath beforehand. That's several rounds to act - in our games longer than the average non-ritual magical duel lasts. If he wanted a few minutes, Lungs of the Otter would do the trick, at the cost of the same time (1 round) it cost his adversary to create the magical air. Also, it's not 100% clear how that air would act when created. Would it displace all the existing air? Mix with it?

Two notes on the Crushing Embrace of the Deadly Sand. First, snip the side of the cube to 300 feet and drop a magnitude Second, remember that "massive" or extremely intricate stuff can always be ruled to be a ritual by the storyguide, independently of level and other stuff. Since you are effectively creating a small sand hill ... hmmm. Personally, I'd allow it as a plain, non-ritual formulaic spell. It's not as if it does not have its own drawbacks

[Fruny]

[quote]
Also, it's not 100% clear how that air would act when created. Would it displace all the existing air? Mix with it?[/qutoe]

It is my understanding that the two "airs" would merely coexist, not displace each other. I perceive Auram to be about properties of the ubiquitous atmospheric medium, which include being foggy, rainy, breathable, etc rather than the scientific concept of gases.

Meditation for the day: Chamber of Spring Breezes and Room of Stale Air.