Question on Maleficia

after have moved to live with my girlfriend 220 km far away...
after have sai "bye (sigh)" to my group of player....
after 5 months of changing...

and now I have a question.
what use a magus may have to know some unholy methods and power whitout chtonic magic? and to know only an UM?
(eg: pp138, the damhad-duidsan start whit incantation. after they may learn UP, but no CM).

dopo essermi trasferito a vivere con la mia ragazza a 220 km di distanza...
dopo aver detto "Ciao (sigh)" al mio gruppo di giocatori...
dopo 5 mesi di cambiamento...

ed ora ho una domanda.
quale utilità ha un magus nel conoscere alcuni metodi e poteri sconsacrati senza magia chtonica?e nel conoscere soloun MS?
(eg: pp138, i damhad-duidsan partono con incantamento. successivamente possono imparare PS, ma non MC).[/i][/size]

Hail! Congratulations on reading the book, bummer on losing your group.

Methods are kind of like Hermetic Techniques: you can't do much with them unless you have Forms, too. In that sense, having Incantation without an Unholy Power isn't very useful. If you do have both, though, you can do some pretty powerful stuff.

Imagine we have an infernalist with both Incantation and Consumption, like a follower of Dav'duidsus. By using those two Abilities together like Arts, he can cast a maleficium (an evil spell). For example, here's a useful one for a magus that I just made up from the guidelines:

R: Voice D: Mom T: Ind
This effect restores a long-term Fatigue level to any one target within range of the caster's voice, including the caster, by causing another target within range to lose a long-term Fatigue level.
(Base 10, +2 Voice)

To produce this unholy effect, the infernalist must spend a Confidence Point, and then rolls for the maleficium very like a spontaneous spell, except that the result is not divided in half or by 5. An infernalist magus can also cast spells with his Hermetic magic, but with these two Supernatural Abilities he also has access to another set of infernal spells that he can cast.

There are a few benefits to having a Method without any Powers, though. Having Incantation means that the character can recognize and use infernal vis with his maleficia, and as a storyguide I would allow the character to use it with his Hermetic magic as well, without penalty. Also, since he is an infernalist, he can perform sacrifices to boost the power of his Hermetic magic, and he can profane the holy to produce infernal vis that he can use. These are both quite useful abilities for a magus, as long as his sodales don't know exactly what he's doing.

Hail Great Master!
Is truly an honor to have an answer from you.

Thanks for this, but think of this: the poor damhad-duidsan, whitout Chtonic magic, must perform the maleficia only whith his score in UM and UP, like an ability that don't thake any advantage of his Arts. Poor infernalist.
And the (sexy) witch of thessaly? Those woman have CM but no UP or UM to use as a bonus as stated in pp123-124.
ps: Are Cinderella and and her stepmother in pp 60?

[size=75] Hail Gran Maestro!!!
E' un vero onore avere una risposta da te.[/size]

[size=75]grazie per questo, ma pensa a questo: il povero damhad-duidsan, senza Magia Chtonica, deve effettuare i malefici con solo il suo punteggio in MS e PS, come un'abilità che non ottiene alcun vantaggio dalle sue Arti. Povero infernalista.
E le (sexy) streghe di Tessaglia? Queste donne hanno MC ma non MS o PS da usare come bonus come indicato a pp 123-123.
ps: Sono Cenerentola e la sua matrigna a pp 60?[/size]

Aw, shucks. Thanks. I thought I was just a Journeyman, though. :slight_smile:

They have those as their favored abilities, but that doesn't mean they can't learn others. I grant you, Chthonic Magic is a really good one for an infernal magus, just like Holy Magic is good for magi interested in the divine, since it allows them to use their magic with their effects associated with another realm, but these powers are by no means useless without the Virtues. Is Shapechanging or Entrancement useless because it doesn't combine easily with Hermetic magic?

I expect that a powerful infernalist with an interest in the Maleficia will have five or six of the Supernatural Abilities. He should acquire all the ones favored by his tradition, because they are so easy to pick up, and then he'll probably be able to learn one or two others. So a typical DD would have Incantation, Consumption, Malediction, and Shapechanging, and one or two other powers. Besides C'thonic Magic, Debauchery is a good choice because it gives you twice as many other things you can do with your Unholy Powers.

I think that's the demon talked about on that same page, the one that torments serving girls. I like the subtle horns and tail in that illustration. :slight_smile:

but this infernalist knows the Arts, and this gives him a HUGE malus to learn other supernatural abilities. (I'm not sure of this. I lend all my manuals to my old group until new ones arrives.)
[size=75]ma questo infernalista conosce le Arti, e questo gli da un GRANDE malus nell'imparare altre abilità sovrannaturali (non sono sicuro di questo. Ho prestato tutti i miei manuali al mio vecchio gruppo fino a che non ne arrivano di nuovi)[/size]

Oh, yes, that's true. Once he's been opened to the Arts, his scores must be subtracted from all Supernatural Ability advancement totals except his Favored Abilities. He probably won't be able to learn CM this way; you'd have to take it as a Virtue or possibly initiate it as a Mystery.

If you're asking why every Hermetic group doesn't have Chthonic Magic as a Favored Ability, because it's so useful-- well, the concept doesn't fit every sort of infernalist. The Damhadh-Duidsan are infernalist hedge wizards who joined the Order, though they are perhaps unworthy of the honor. It is important that those of them who follow an evil path keep their infernal powers secret, or what happened to Tytalus could happen to them. Their curses should be carried out quietly. Also, they aren't very Roman, and since a great part of Hermetic Theory is based on the magic of the Order of Mercury, it makes sense that their curses don't integrate well with mainstream magic, while the Thessalian Witches' magic does. Unfortunately, the Thessalian tradition is more focused on other powers like Summoning and Hex, and they don't typically do anything with the maleficia.

If what you want is a tradition that combines the best of both worlds, I'd suggest something like a dark Diedne group, maybe based on the culture of the Iberian Celts. They might have Chthonic Magic, Consumption, Incantation, and Malediction as their favored abilities. You could start with a character with Diedne Magic to introduce the idea that he must keep his magic secret, and then develop the darker aspects and infernal powers as he begins investigating the secrets of his ancestors. I'd suggest you don't play this as a player character, though, because most of the fun will be setting him up for a spectacular end. :slight_smile: