Question on Mythic Blood power: broken?

Games Discussion Ars Magica
1

Hi there,

I am currently designing an ex miscellanea wolf mistress. I thought it would be cool for her to NOT be a shapeshifter, but a skinchanger (departing from Bjornaers here) because she is a friend and mistress of wolves, not a wolf herself (even if she has their powers.

Anyway, what I am having trouble is with her Mythic Blood

I plan her to be able to howl and create a wolf. The effect is as follows

Howl of the Woodland Prowler (CrAn30)
Lvl15 (create mammal), +1 touch, +2 sun.

Creates a normal wolf. The wolf is not affected by the Gift, since it is a magical creation of Sun duration. The spell requires voice both voice and gestures to work. The wolf appears just by the side of the maga. After that it can move freely and acts like a regular wolf.

Seems OK so far.

However, how many times can she howl? Can she summon, say, 100 wolves? (given enough time and howls) 1000? A million wolves?

Not that I want to create that many (10 for a large pack of prowlers would be OK for me! Especially since she can't control larger packs right now :wink:) but I have not seen any limits on the number of times that Mythic Blood effects can be used

The description of the effect says "use at will", so I guess this means that by the rules Lupersus could overrun almost anything with a few castings of this effect.... Sounds a little bit broken if used to the extreme, doesn't it?

The effect seems cool for a wolf mistress to me (pity I thought about this AFTER I created my exmiscellanea in my RL saga...), but seems it might be a little bit extreme.

Sounds OK to you?

Xavi

PS: Another potential option is making it Group target, and Duration diameter for a fast attack force that leaves no traces.... The wilds are dangerous places, you know :wink:

2

No more broken than the spell that it was designed as. Anyone could learn a Creo Animal spell to do the same thing, Creo Animal level 30.

Keep in mind that this doesn't grant you control of the wolves, in itself, and thus for each wolf you'll probably have to take some time to assert your dominance of it somehow, or else it'll just be free to wander off or cause trouble.

3

Ejidoth took the text from my fingertips-- sure she can make a 1000 wolves, but they're going to act like normal wolves, and be hungry, assert dominance, consider your maga as a possible tasty meat snack, etc....

You'd need a Rego requisite to provide control over the wolf, which would reduce that duration from Sun to Diameter... a far more palatable ability, in my opinion.

-Ben.

4

I know officially the Level cap is 30 for this, but I'd allow up to a Level 45 effect given the character concept if the player also spent another Virtue point and took Hero's Birthright (Minor Heroic Virtue from HoH:TL Mercere section) which normally adds another Level 15 ability.

Taking Hero's Birthright is legal as magi with Mythic Blood (or the Legacy Flaw) can also take Heroic Virtues, not just characters with Blood of Heroes.

There's a soft precedent for this in RoP:Divine and RoP:Infernal, where Nephilim and Devil Children can have powers but no upper limit of effect level is mentioned IIRC. (Infernal Blessings are different).

You could then have a howl only (no gestures), Rego requisite (to prevent the wolf from attacking but not allowing control) and Voice range (because it just makes more sense) for a single wolf. I'd force a drop in the range to Concentration and hand wave the extra +1 magnitude as "fancy effect" as a counterbalance.

This seems true to the effect you are trying to achieve at the cost of one more Flaw point.

Abusable?

Certainly, but perhaps not as much as first thought particularly if combined with an appropriate Minor Flaw discussed with the Storyguide and given the limits of needing to make Concentration checks to maintain the effect while doing anything else.

I'd work on that Concentration score if I were you.

(Sure, it's a bit Drizzt/Guenwhatever but it's sure got potential...)

Regards,

Jarkman

5

The character is for the Ad Fons online saga in this forum. As the rules read, the strict ArM5 rules are applied. Since the level 45 effect would be out of the rules, I prefer not to implement it. Good suggestion, but out of options, really :confused:

I am designing a second (regular hermetic) effect to give me control of the wolves as they are summoned. Something akin to Aura of Rightfyul Authority but only for wolves (ReAn15-20) sounds about right here. Having an Supernatural Immunity to wolf attacks as well (sounds cool to have the mage walk into a wolf den unhindered "just because" she is a wolf mage. :stuck_out_tongue: Would solve the attack by wolves thingy.

Drizzt is the dark elf dude from the lousy Salvatore books, right?* Not exactly the kind of effect I am trying to achieve, but can see a similitude. I am not summoning a particular wolf at all, but a whole pack of the buggers (generic wolves) instead. The Dark Elf used to summon a particular magical panther IIRC, and that would be covered by a fancy effect ogf Magical Animal COmpanion.

The effect I am trying to emulate is more along the lines of the Witch that dressed only in a wolf pelt stands on a rock in the middle of a clearing during a night of a full moon and howls to the moon to call down her children to hunt down and punish the evil lumberjacks that are destroying the sacred forest. :slight_smile: It is dangerous to walk in the forest at night....

Cheers,

Xavi

  • I consider a transcription of a D&D campaign with linear stories and loooooong descriptions of hack and slash scenes to be lousy. You can almost see the die rolling there. Sorry if it offends anyone.
6

In that case, why not make the summoning wolves power into a Hermetic spell (which you can Master to multi-cast, fast-cast as needed) and the lesser level "Aura of Lupine Authority" without needing to speak or whatever (Level 20 max effect) as the granted power? This sort of fits as well and you can stay within the strict canon for the Online Saga.

Another option if you are Ex-Misc is to take the "Summon Animals" power from HoH:Societas with "wolves" as a specialty? (It's a Major Virtue but can accomplish pretty much what you want to achieve here unless you are restricted to the ArM5 corebook).

Cheers,

Jarkman

PS: I'm hardly offended by the backhander to Salvatore's books. Don't worry :slight_smile:

7

even with aura of athority, which if i remember correctly only gives a bonus to your roll, wouldn't you need a leadership score to successfully control a large number?

8

Aura of Rightful Authority (ReMe25, IIRC) gives the other a desire to follow your orders, as if you were his natural superior. No roll implied. Yup, I would still need a leadership score there, and I will make sure I have it. The one that gives you a bonus is some Imaginem effect: Aura of Ennobled Presence (MuIm10, IIRC) thjat gives you something like +3 to your social rolls.

I do not have HoH:Societates :frowning: My local store has not replenished its ArM5 stock since RoP:I, so the later 2 HOH books are not available to me :frowning: I am working from the strict rulebook to design my exmiscellanea as a consequence.

Swapping the 2 effects seems an option. Will think about it. However, I am still of the opinion that summoning the beasts would be quite cool as well. Insta-pack deal seems worthy to me :wink:

Now the second effect.....

Mistress of the Wild (ReAn25)
Base 5, +2 voice, +2 sun, Individual)
any individual wolf will obey the commands of the caster and will consider it the alpha wolf of the pack. It needs to be cast multiple times for multiple wolves. (I am short by a magnutude to make this a Group effect). Dogs will fear and hate the magus when this effect is on.

It would be way more cool if it was a constant effect that the magus exudes (no real control over it), but well, it seems that it cannot be.

Cheers,

Xavi

9

That's why God created enchanted devices (on the 9th day somewhere around Tea Time, I believe) my good man! :wink:

Put it in a ring with Duration:Ring Target:Group and Voila, permanent effectville! :smiley:

10

And where is the mythicness of her blood there? :wink:

I know I can generate those effects with spells. The idea was to have a cool inner effect that marked her as a wolf mistress. So no magic rings for her.

The level 30 is a real limit for those effects

Xavi

11

Hey, you asked how to make the effect constant, I gave you the only solution short of a Virtue, which you do not have anyways, so take what you can get. :wink:

You said "it cannot be" but it CAN, just not in the manner you would like.

12

Oh, I like it!!!
It surely gives the whole "mistress of the wolves" feeling :smiley:

And if you used the alternative sensory magic ranges from HoH: MC?

Aura of Lupine Authority 25
Base 5, Range: Personnal, +2 Sun, +2 Scent
As Aura of Rightfull Authority, but it works on any wolf that smells the odor of the maga.
You may forego words or gestures, or take 5 levels of penetration, as you wish it.

Note that

^^ :wink:

I hope this helps you :smiley:.

13

As for the number of times to use the effect: The RAW state that you have to applie an increas of level similar to enchanted devices. Thus adding 10 levels to the effect you can use it unlimited.
So any level 20 effect can be used unlimited, as level 30 is the cut off.

14

I like this one better than create a wolf, it has more of the feel I think a mythic effect should have. Not sure about the dog part, I would probally go with domesticated animals or some such.

15

Just make an Int + Con (or whatever) check versus the power. One to (say) three wolves is a check of 3. Six wolves might be a check of 6. Nine wolves would be a 9. Twelve wolves would be a 12. Etc. Any item or additional ability that enhanced this could add a bonus to the roll versus the difficulty...As the character starts to enhance the ability, he/she would get more powerful....this would provide stories as the character chases after various items like the pelt from the wolf slain by the woodsman at grandmas house...(but it has a flaw that it doesn't work against girls with red hooded cloaks)..The pelt might give say a +1 to the roll...or more depending...

16

I DO like it! Pretty much what I was trying to achieve with the effect. As I said, I do not have HOH:MC so that was really helpful. Thanks :slight_smile:

Will rename it as "Mistress of the Wild" but appart from that I will leave it as it is. Thanks to everyone that threw ideas for discussion and commented. It has been very helpful overall :smiley:

I will also think about the prohibition to use magic vs red cloaked girls :wink:

Cheers,

Xavi

17

Yup, your name is better, and the prohibition is fun indeed :smiley:
I'm happy to have been helpfull, btw :smiley:

18

I don't think it's necessary to use the game mechanic to implement the character image you've come up with. Maybe you can come up with some other wolf-themed power for the virtue, and make the character an even stronger example of the theme you've come up with.

19

I concur. The blood itself is what the wolves would sense, making your character the alpha. I think the other abilities you envision for this character would be the spells that her parens would teach her. "If you howl just this certain way, you can summon a wolf. Now go on, practice. No, no, no... use a little more of the upper palette.... From the diaphragm. There you go...."

(sorry, I just finished the Harry Potter series, and it's swishing around in my head....)

Anyway, GREAT character concept!!!

--eric