Questions about Items of Quality from HoH:MC

Salve sodalis

I have just finished to learn my first minor house mistery but I have a lot of questions about Items of Quality.

  1. if I create an Item of Quality using a single pawn ov Vim vis I attuned the item to magic but it is not a magical item, so can I enchant it again in a new Season of lab work as a lesser enchantment or an invested item maintaining its bonus coming from the previous attunement?

  2. does the selling of Quality items (not further enchanted as lesser or invested magical item) avoid the Treaty of Rome (Tribunal of Rome 3rd Edition)? In an entry in the chapter about Verditius (HoH:MC) I read that Quality Items are often sell to mundanes

Please help a very greedy and avaricious Italian Verditius trading oriented :smiley: Maintaining my lab is very expensive :stuck_out_tongue:

This has come up before and I beleive that the texts did not answer the question. I'd say sure, the pawn of vis was to bring forth the qualities of the ideal form. It isn't any more magical than any other item.

It's been a while since I've read ToH:Rome I suggest that you look at the reasoning for the treaty and decide for yourself.


Though the item itself is not magical, the House of Verditus does regard it as a magic item that counts to the one item per year restriction, IIRC. It is written somewhere inthe Verditus chapter (Serf's parma!)

Good answer. I think I will limit the selling of my loved magic items of quality to one per year. Moreover this self imposed limit does not unbalance the game!

Another two questions!

  • In a single Season can I create more than one Quality Item?
  • What is the mundane price in pound of a Quality Item?

Thanks :smiley:

I need these informations because is my wish to start a commerce with mundane in and outside my Tribunal but I can not find any answer to my questions.

If I sell to another Magus I could ask him to pay the double amount of Vis used in my lab so two units. According to HoH:TL in the Mercere section one Vis is about one pound, bui I am not sure of this.

In Covenants it says about 10 pounds for a pawn of Vis. It also makes it very clear that using Vis to make cash is madness unless you are very poor in mundane cash, or Vis rich.

As to the price of such an item, well you have a problem because 10 pounds will build you a manor house, 12 a motte & bailey - would people ever part with such vast quantities of silver for a blade? I suspect not. I does say in the same list that warhorses cost 16 pounds, which seem extraordinary to me - doesnt really seem to be in scale with other things.

This is the night of "revitalize topic" :smiley:

I have a new problem with Quality Items. Could I create a Quality armor and gain a bonus in Defense?

Armors grant max a +7 bonus to protect wearer (I am limited to 3 because my score in Philosophiae) but I am more inclined to consider this bonus a Soak bonus and because the finished item grants a bonus to the user's roll and Soak is not rolled, I do not allow this bonus work. Any idea or clarification about?

It was my understanding that you bring it's natural qualities out using magic. I don't recall anywhere in the text where it says this is limited by your magic theory. Therefore your armour should have a +7 bonus, not +3.

Firstly nothing is limited by one's philosophiae score, only by one's MT score. Secondly this limitation only concerns the application of an objects Size & material Bonus to one's lab total for purposes of enchanting. It does not figure into the raising of an object's inherent S&M bonus to the surface as is done when utilising the Items of Quality mystery.

Thus even with an MT of 3 you could create an armour with +7 Protect Wearer, you just couldnt add the full +7 S&M to your lab total when calculating how many seasons it will require to complete.

Excuse me but this is not the point, let me explain again (but first some precisation) :slight_smile:

It is not correct. HoH:MC p.124 says: "however this bonus is limited by the magus's Philosophiae Score at the time of creation, as this score measures his understanding of Verditius runes"

Creating an Item of Quality require only one Season and one pawn of vis Vim, no Lab Total is required

HoH:MC p.124 says: "once finished the empowered item provides a bonus to the user's roll when it is used in an appropriate manner"

Now I would like to know if my new Quality bonus for an armor could be rolled for my Defense Total in combat or not, as armors grant +7 protection (capped by my Philosophiae Score) and I suppose to my Soak Total (that I remenber it is not rolled, so this is in contrast with the rule noted above)

It's a good point. I had skimmed past the significance of "roll". My Verditius recently made some armour of quality for a political ally. The assumption was that the bonus stacked with the armour's soak bonus.

Personally, I'm happy to apply the bonus regardless.

I would say that you get the bonus to your defense roll...though it does make more sense that it would apply to the soak...

My question is "Can you do this to an item that is enchanted...?"
I don't see anything that says 'no'...

I'd like to point out that Soak is rolled on occasion: falling, vs. spell damage. While it's not rolled in combat, I'd still let the player add the bonus to an armor of qualities' Soak.

Matt Ryan

Metodicus, you are correct. I wrote that off the cuff from an obviously faulty memory. Apologies.

Upon rereading the mystery once again, I see that your original interpretation appears to be true. Thus although one could potentially bring out the full +7 Protect Wearer latent bonus of an armour (using the running example) the Verdi is limited in how much of that inherent +7 he can raise to the surface by his philosophiae score. Thus you would need a 7 in Philosophiae (not abnormal for a Verdi well past his/her gauntlet) in order to raise the full bonus to the surface.

As to how that bonus is applied, it merely states that it is applicable in any situation requiring a simple or stress die roll in which the power would be useful. So I would argue that the full or partial Protect Wearer bonus would apply to the defence roll but not to the soak (since soak is not rolled).



It is possible that introducing a lot of Quality Items into the market such as inpenetrable armor (my group choose to confirm a bonus to the Soak, I disagree) I could break the Code of Hermes? My group suppose that selling a lot of "enhanced armor" to a single buyer could attract undesidered attention due the unnatural high protection of my creation

This is one of the (many) cases where the issue is somewhat vague in the Code itself, and is probably generally determined by the tribunal and any politicking that may be going on within it.