Hi all,
I have just re-read the rules on Talisman and I have a query about enchantments in the item at range touch affecting something the magus is touching.
My magus has a ring as his talisman, it is on his wedding finger. Can he activate a range touch effect in the talisman on something he is holding in his other hand? Or does the talisman have to touch it?
If he can use his body for R:Touch, can my magus use:
R:Touch, effects through his bare feet?
R:Touch, effects through his gloved hands?
R:Touch, effects through his booted feet?
R:Voice, effects using the sound of his footsteps?
The last one is stretching it quite a bit.
I personally would allow any R:Touch as his clothing is considered part of him...
Just to come at the question from a different angle - what if the talisman changes size or shape, can it still do range touch effects?
To take an extreme example: A wooden staff enchanted with a MuHe so it grows in length by 9 times. Can it still be used for range touch effects for itself and the magus?
Or in my case, if the gold ring turns into a glove over the magus hand - does it still function as normal?
Yes, but the penetration of the transformation effect would need to pierce the resistance of the target.
If your ring becomes a glove it is a transformed object and as such can be kept out with Parma Magica.
If you cannot touch the target (because your transformation fails to penetrate his resistance), you cannot deliver R: Touch effects.
Wouldn't the talisman as a ring also need to penetrate to touch? It is a magic item. Magic swords can't touch unless they penetrate. So, I would err on the effect being delivered must have sufficient penetration to complete the touch, rather than anything that alters the shape of the talisman needing to penetrate.
I'd tend to disagree. Not just in the talisman's case, but enchanted items in general.
I guess it comes down to if you consider Voice range to be a specific exception in that the user's voice determines the effective range of an item's effect, or a general implication that the user gets to apply the effects of the item as if he were the caster. This is especially relevant when it comes to enchanting effects with range Eye.
A Talisman has certain benefits always. It always has the Magus's Form Resistance at least, this is its only resistance when not touched by the magus. When touched by the magus it enjoys full resistance of Parma and Form, so laying a finger on the tip of a staff gives it full protection. Next any Personal range effects on the magus or in the item can freely extend to the other (and are likely intended to in many cases). Finally the Touch range of the magus extends through the talisman. So, by my interpretation that is the touch of it whether its in its normal state or if it were elongated or changed somehow.
The question then, is what is resisted first? Is the Talisman (as a magic item) resisted by other beings with MR (always a tricky question)? If the item is transformed in size or shape, would that be resisted (most likely it would be resisted)? Finally is the effect that the talisman delivering resistable (again likely yes, it is resistable)? So, if the first of these two are resistable (and let's say resisted), would the third even get the chance to be resisted, since it could not truly touch the target? That's the tricky one.
The way I see it:
MR stops magical things from doing much, but there is still contact. Doesn't magical water make you damp? Therefore an item that is magically turned into another object can still touch things with MR, but has no force behind it.
If the magical effect has sufficient penetration it can breach the MR and do whatever it wants.
Any enchanted effect trying to hit something with MR needs its own Penetration.
Interesting choice of example. and the answer to your (probably rhetorical) question is no.
ArM5, p. 85 has some examples in the thrid column (it continues on the next page, butthe interesting bit is p. 85).
Magical water does not make you damp, nor does water which is magical in itself (ie. turned into wine through Muto).
This is the origin of the (in)famous 'pink dot' defence.
I don't think you'll need any penetration on the elongating effect unless you plan on whacking people with MR with the staff.
It makes sense that it counts at touching someone in terms of spell casting if you "touch" their MR. Otherwise you would seriously hamper touch range spells and render them useless in a lot of cases since you'd need to penetrate in order to touch the person, but touch the person in order to cast the spell and penetrate; a catch 22.
You talisman is also considered to be part of you so i think it's perfectly fine to have a talisman ring with a touch effect on your left hand and activating it by touching someone with your right.