Ranges, Durations, Targets: Let's be having em!

Hmmm... that has quite some potential for the research project of an Imaginem Bonisagus: the Invisible Library, that has all the books of the Order, wherever they are really stored, available for reading....

I can see this spreading into message sharing (email) and the redcaps using all their accumulated muscle through the centuries to oppose it STRONGLY.


A wiki would be useful...

As I have grown to enjoy playing Mercere (no worry they will never replace the Tytalus for the love in my heart) I wholly agree. The inventor of such a thing would perish if such information were to get out. I think the Mercere would actually find someone who would regardless of being caught and killed themselves, would see to such a person vanishing. :laughing:

As for the discussion on container and room target, I don't see a problem having within a game two different magi create the same effect by different methods. Perhaps one of the magi has a magical focus on containers, then that magus proceeds to create a new Target parameter for spells, moving further towards his passion for containers. The other maga next door, she cares not one wit for using containers, instead she simply needs one spell specific for events. She uses room Target. Same effect different parameters, same cost.
There should be some benefit for using Container however, but I am not wise enough to spot it.


As for new:

Duration: Purpose

The spell lasts as long as the target is engaged in a singular purpose. Be it a ox pulling a cart, a fire creating warmth, a scribe writing a manuscript, ect. for as long as the target is singularly focused on doing the one task, the spell continues. At the very least a +2 magnitude, which I think is fair for such a thing. Perhaps with the caveat that the spell requires some sort of boost or fails at Sunrise or Sunset?

And yes, this is probably a duplication of Until, however again, I see no reason not to have different parameters do the same task. It is all about the flavor of a individual wizard doing things from their perspective and from their way of learning.

I have been trying to come up with a Target: Name parameter. Casting spells on a name would be very interesting, though I think beyond Hermetic ability. It would be akin I think to Bloodline, however perhaps even requiring a Ritual. For it would effect ALL persons of that Name if they are within the Range of the spell. Now IMAGINE if you have a Arcane Connection to the platonic essence of that one Name, then you cast the spell and everyone within Europe with that name is affected! MMmwwwwhhhaaahhahahahahah :smiling_imp:

Cough cough.... uh sorry. Supreme evil-overlord came out there for a second.

Aegides of the Hearth might make such systems difficult. Meaning the library sharing or the Hermetic "email."

"Pair" (meaning two individuals) as a target of equivalent level to "Part" is something that would make both MuVi and flexible formulaic magic a heck of a lot more useful and less wonky.

I always thought Until was a great duration for making undead. While not quite what the thread asks, here is something I wrote once to that effect:

Maker of Undead
Major Mystery Virtue
The initiate gains the ability to create undead of Magic Might. Undead are created by Ritual spells which employ an Until (Vanquished) duration. This duration is similar to the duration obtained through Faerie Magic, except that the spell does not end upon the death or Twilight of the caster. The condition that ends the spell must be appropriate to the created undead's nature, and the ritual will only function if cast on appropriate targets as specificied in the spell's description.
A Rego component is often included to keep the undead under the caster's control, and the Art is also commonly used through ReCo, ReMe and ReAn. Any Art combination can be used with this Mystery, however, as long as the troupe agrees it makes sense for creating that particular undead.
The resulting undead are created as Spring Magical characters (see Realms of Power: Magic), of Magic Might equal to at most half the spell's level. A single ritual can create multiple undead, but if it does then the total Might of the created undead must not exceed half the spell's level. The created undead's magical nature and powers must be appropriate to the nature of the ritual creating it.

The Skeletal Guard
ReCo 35 Ritual
R: Touch, D: Until, T: Ind
This is perhaps the most basic spell utilized by the Masters Beyond Death cult. The spell animates a corpse, creating an obedient albeit mindless servant. It can only be cast on dead soldiers. The guards will faifthfully obey all instructions from their master, altough they will be unable to understand complicated commands. The spell ends if the guards are ever commanded by their rightful lord (open to SG interpretation) to stand down.
(ReCo B10, +1 Touch, +4 Until)

The Animated Corpse
Magic Might 15 (Co)
Personality Traits: Loyal (to Master) +6
Fear of Death: The eyes of the animated corpse glow with an eerie red light. Anyone that looks into them is faced with his own mortality, testing the resolve of even the bravest of heroes. The target must make a Stamina roll of 12+ or be consumed by fear, as per Panic of the Trembling Heart. This power is usually not effective in combat. CrMe 10 (B 4, +1 Eye, +1 Diam), 5 points, penetartion 15.

The Darkness of the Grave
PeIg 30 Ritual
R: Touch, D: Until, T: Ind
This ritual can only be cast on a spirit that has been entombed in deep catacombs. It drains all light and heat from the corpse, leaving an icy dark essence that rises as a Shadow. Shadows are not necessarily under the control of the necromancer, that should control them in some other fashion.
Shadows only prowl at night. The spell is broken and they fade into nothingness if exposed to direct sunlight.
(B 4, +1 both chill and darken, +1 Touch, +4 Until)

Shadow (of the Icy Grave)
Magic Might 15
Personality Traits: Fear of light +3, Drawn to heat +2
Chill of the Grave: The mere touch of the Shadow chills objects or people; targeted people lose a Fatigue level. PeIg 5 (B 4, +1 Touch), 0 points, penetration 5.
The Grave's Icy Grip: By spending its Might, the Shadow can more thoroughly chill a target. PeIg 25 (B20, +1 Touch), 5 points, penetration 15.
Extinguish the Offending Light: By spending its Might, the Shadow can extinguish torches, candles, or similar light sources. PeIg 5 (B4, +1 Touch), 1 Might, penetration 10.

The Unvanquished Wyrm
ReAn 100 Ritual
This ritual can only be cast on the corpse of a true Dragon. The corpse then awakens as a powerful undead, under the control of the caster.
(B15, +1 mental as well as physical control, +2 voice, +4 until, +10 for size and to increae Might)

Undead Dragon
Magic Might 50 (An)
Size: +7
Aura of Fear: The sight of the undead dragon strikes fear in the hearts of any who see it. CrMe (B4, +4 spectacle, +2 sun), 0 points, 0 penetration.
Breath of Death: The undead dragon breaths forth a foul cloud of noxious dark miasma, suffocating all within it. PeCo (), 10 points, 50 penetartion.
Undead Mount: The undead dragon can still fly, and will accept his master as his rider, serving as an exceptional mount. In addition, it can expand its Magic Resistance to protect the magus riding it. This Magic Resistance is not cumulative with the Parma Magica and Forms, and only the highest applies. Given the dragon's high Might, however, this power may still often be advantagenous. ReVi 75 (B50, +1 Touch, +2 special duration, +2 group), 0 points, 0 penetration.
Master of Air

^ ^
^ ^^ ^


That is a post of beauty! Where were you when my Tytalus Belanor was seeking out Disciples of the Worm and insulting them for being narrow minded?

Only one change I'd make to that. Not stamina based for the Fear of Death power. Personality trait (bravery) and related.

I can see why it would make FFM less wonky, but how MuVi?

Related to Until and Purpose, there's ReAu5 Wind at the Back which has a special Duration deemed to be closest to Sun. I think I've seen other special durations elsewhere.

Heya Blackliger - where were you intending to publish all the results of the thread?

Web Grim, Ars wiki, or?


The purpose of container was to work with Seal, and to allow an item such as a backpack or multi-component cases to affect all the contents. Spells for transportation between the two, or to make the containers much lighter or stronger. I didn't like Room affecting a chest of drawers and its contents, it felt more like a multi-room or Structure. And using Structure seemed totally inappropriate.

The Npc who introduced the players to it was a Tremere Archmage named Bah.

Range (or Target): Firelight. Equivalent to Voice +1, or Sight. See this thread for further details: https://forum.atlas-games.com/t/question-can-firelight-be-a-range/7601/1
It's a bit stronger on flavor than on rules mechanics, but it should easily be workable with a minor breakthrough, and possibly workable with a +1 magnitude premium.

Target: Sigil. Equivalent to Group +1 without a minor breakthrough. This Target will affect anyone bearing an appropriate sigil, such as a crest of arms, a purple feather in their helmet, or ash in the shape of a cross on their forehead. Alternatively, it could affect anyone in the target area that lacks such a sigil. The decision is made at the time the spell is invented.
Note that this does not dodge Hermetic limits--to affect more than ten individuals, the magus would have to apply a +1 size modifier.
The Sigil Target would be useful in a large, hectic battle. For example, a magus might invent a Muto Corpus spell with target Sigil. Everyone bearing the appropriate sigil increases in size by +1, gaining the appropriate bonuses to strength and wound increments. A magus may cast this spell on the heat of battle and it will only target his allies that bear the appropriate mark.
An opposite usage: A maga could invent a Perdo Corpus spell of target Sigil that inflicts a light wound on anyone in the target group that does not bear the sigil.
A Minor Breakthrough would let this be cast at Group instead of Group +1
Alternatively, Sigil could be replaced by a simple matter of adding a Rego Requisite and +1 magnitude, but I like this flavor.

Range: Breath. Affects whatever the magus is directly breathing upon. Equivalent of Touch +1 without a minor breakthrough. This is useful in social situations where a magus might want to be undetected, where a range of Touch or Eye is too obvious (and a Sight range is unnecessary). This is moderately useful but (IMHO) also thematic--imagine breathing on someone and knocking them unconscious, or blowing on water to turn it to ice.
A Minor Breakthrough would let this be at Touch range.

A cabin on a boat, on a cart. A closet, a cupboard, a coffin. How light a shade of grey before it's not a Room anymore?

Oh well no doubt, I am totally a supporter of both Target: Container and Duration: Seal. They are absolutely brilliant as far as I am concerned! And I will be wanting at some point in MY TT game attempt to introduce them by a NPC as a way to baffle our Verdit researching experimenter.

Thanks for a well thought out suggestion. :slight_smile:

I was just trying to help equate how two different magi would do the same effect with two different ways of seeing magic. Also I think you don't need the magnitudes... unless you really want them. 8)

I intend to put these on the wiki once we've got a decent list.

I'm also compiling a table for my own personal use with a little project that I shall post more about when I get further progressed with it.

Muto vim can now increase individual to pair or decrease group to pair rather than only being able to go to part.

Ofcourse, silly me