Reducing Might and Magic Resistance

OK, I may have brought this up before, but I'm looking for a definitive answer if possible.

If a creature with Might of 50 say, spends 5 Might is its Magic Resistance reduced to 45?

If the same creature has a spell cast on it that reduces it by 5 (like Demon's Eternal Oblivion and the variants for the different Realms), is its Magic Resistance reduced by 5?

I remember reading in Infernal book, that one of the tactics is to cast weak versions of DEO on a demon to soften it up for a bigger spell. But I also seem to remember that in other rules it doesn't do that.

Is there a more or less official clarification?

A creature has 2 valiues, even if they tend to be comntracted into one:

Might Score (magic, infernal, divine or faerie might). This is what appears in the creature's description. This is the total might of the creature, and shows how powerful it is (roughly speaking) in terms of supernatural power. Spells like DEO target THIS score. If this score falls to 0, the creature is destroyed. DEO et al are really dangerous to a supernatural creature since they destroy his essence, not his ability to its powers.

Might Pool. This is the ammount of points that the creature can spend. When a creature spends might, it spends points from here. If the creature has not used any powers, this value is identical to his Might Score. If the Might Pool falls to 0 the creature cannot use any of his supernatural powers that require might until it regenerates some points, but appart from that it is no problematic for the creature to be around with an empty might pool.

Clear as mud?

it can be confusing in how it is explained, but once you get this clear it is easy to read it :slight_smile:


That's what I figured...

The Score is its resistance, and its score is not lowered by spending Might. But the different attack spells target it which lowers the resistance.

There we go.

Yup. You got it right. :slight_smile:


This is a very helpful thread!
I have a couple follow-up questions.
Does this mean that casting DEO on a creature lowers its penetration scores with the power it can use?
Does inflicting wound penalties reduce a creature's penetration?
Will a Demon or other supernatural entity ever recover from DEO? Or is it a permanent loss?

Reducing the Might Score reduces both Resistance and Penetration.

I'm not aware of a link between wound penalties and Penetration, so I'd say no.

Personally, I can't remember a rule on this, but I'm inclined to say yes. Whenever it has been an issue in my sagas I've always left a reasonable time between appearances in which some arbitrary healing process could have taken place.

If the Penetration Total calculation depends on its Might Score (which it almost always does) then if the Might Score is lowered, yes the Penetration Total will lower too.

No. Unless the creature has some sort of Flaw that would make this happen. I don't think that there is a published Flaw which does this, but there is no reason why such a flaw couldn't exist in your saga.

It is a permanent loss. The Might Score doesn't come back of its own accord.

I believe that there are ways for magical and faerie creatures to gain Might Score in their relevant realm books. So, the creature could do whatever needs to be done to increase its Might Score back to its original Score, but it is not easier or anything because the creature once had a larger Might Score.

Permanent loss yup. However, the creature can still regain those points using several methods. The most common one is easting vis (for magical beings, but I guess any being shpuld be able to do just that) or completing a significant adventure that grants them vitality (for faeries)

IIRC somewhere it also states that it is not completely permanent, and that the Might Score will regenerate. Eventually. So that you can use "storyguide fiat" to make the creature/dempon/whatever regain his powers. I think this statement was in realms of power: magic, but I might be wrong here.

Wound penalties affect any of the character's actions. So if the creature has suffered a medium wound it will have a -3 to penetration. Dunno if you referred to this, but that is the only thing that will cause wounds to affect penetration: wound penalties affect any actions of the creature: since they reduce their casting total they reduce its penetration. It works the same for magi,

I do not agree with you about penetration:

magi use a die to cast spell.
Die is affected by wound penalties.

Casting total - level + penetration x mult. pene = penetration.
So yes, penetration is indirectly affected by wounds penalties

Creature use power.
No die.
No penalties.

Have fun.

Ah, that must be use using a house rule then. We add a die to a creature's penetration. Haven't even noticed it, heh :slight_smile:


In general I'd say yes, with the ever-present caveat that SG's prerogative trumps all other considerations. In all my previous stories involving demons and other mystical beings their Penetration lowered with their reduced Might as their Might is a quantitative representation of their earthly power. But it depends on the SG, the mythic creature she has envisioned, etc.

Again, it depends. In their physical form I pretty much always play demons (et al.) as being vulnerable to wound penalties, and it's only fair that if a penalty applies to a mage's Penetration so it goes with the critters. I usually make exceptions for certain critters. E.g., undead beings I typically make no wound penalties (they keep on coming until their extra-dead), and critters in spirit form likewise (so a demon in spirit form, even if it has suffered "wounds", does not suffer wound penalties). It's really a judgment call.

Regardless of what published materials say a supernatural creature can recover lost Might if it is the SG's prerogative. As a SG this can manifest in any way: perhaps the critter needs to perform some sustaining activity (eating vis, or a virgin, whatever), or perhaps the demon seeks out diabolists who need to perform the Unspeakable Rite of the Hungry Fiend for it. Or simply the passage of time and future stories can cure it of its ills. This is why we call StoryGuides "God."

Although as ExarKun notes Wound Penalties do not apply to the Penetration of Might based powers in RAW.

Also note that Wound Penalties do not strictly apply to the Penetration of a magus either. Wound Penalties apply to a magus' Casting Total. The Penetration is then calculated from the Casting Total. So Penetration is indirectly penalized by the Wound Penalties that apply to the Casting Total, but the Penetration itself is not additionally penalized.

Assuming one uses the RAW in every circumstance. This is a SG decision whether her critter is vulnerable to wound penalties or not.

Six of these, half a dozen of the other.