Rego Craft , Musical Instruments and Human Voices

Muto Imaginem , page 145 , ArM05
has the spell Notes of a Delightful Sound.

With Rego Craft , you could invent a Tuning the Stringed Instrument spell.
The Finesse roll determining how well it was tuned.

Restoring a human voice as a craft spell , would be Corpus and covered by the Chirurgy rules
in Art & Academe , page 60. (i hope)
This assumes you are repairing a physically damaged voice.
Improvement being Creo.

Tuning a voice (vocal warm-up) , for a singer or actor , is a series of physical exercises.
The craft spell would perform these in an instant.
(if you allow that a craft spell could replicate the effects)
Otherwise it is just a Rego Corpus spell as normal.

The MuIm spell above , improves musical quality , by changing "bad" notes to "good". (my assumption here)

Just wondering why you can't affect sound species with a ReIm spell to do the same.
You aren't improving the sounds but say slowing them down or speeding them up.
My analogy is using a tuning fork , you compare the sound to a given note and alter the sound to match.
I guess you probably need an Intellego requisite to do this or maybe a magical sense.

So , am i being crazy (rhetorical) or is it worth developing some Rego spells that manipulate sound species?

Hmm, because sound waves were not know in medieval science, so nobody would even think about it ?

Confound the Rival Singer, MoH p140, is a MuIm that can changes notes. I could see ReIm breaking tempo by delaying a few sounds but not changing the pitch.

Thanks , still working my way through MoH and had not got that far yet.
After reading the spell , i see that you just need a Finesse roll for desired changes.
Base 1 , +03 Sight , +01 Conc
Finesse roll of 12+ allowing you to change words to other words.

I can see why it is Muto , if you altering the words as well as the notes.
Muto (page 78 , ArM05)

Probably the wording , but that sounds more of a Rego description.
Not that i dispute the Muto making changes ,
but that you should be able to control sound within its natural limits with Rego.

The ReIm guidelines (page147)

The Captive Voice

Which seems to indicate that you can control all the species that constitute an image ,
hence a whole voice , but not the individual species that make up that voice , therefore Muto.
I did read the MuIm guidelines on page 145.

The section on Perception and Deception , page 61 to 68 , HoH: Societates
covers extra info on Species , but all the spell examples are (Cr,In,Mu,Pe) Im.

Still , any extra thoughts or insight would be welcome.

"Equally, Rego cannot turn a brown dog black", ArM5 p78
I see pitch as color.

Yeah, Rego manipulates its location. I fact all RAW ReIm spells are about location (except a ward and vibrations). Maybe because species have no shape to manipulate.

ReAn can't turn a brown dog black. But ReIm should certainly make a brown dog look black. How else are you going to manipulate an existing image if not through Rego?

Ok, maybe that's stepping in Muto's space but how is making an object appear in a different position more natural than making the color appear different?

You hope for a stronger Rego. There isn't a single example of ReIm affecting anything but position. It is unnatural for a brown dog's image to turn black.

Because RAW says so? I have no argument to help you.

Rego is very limited. Dance of the Staves is close to the limit of what it can do. Bridge of Frost is another one. I've only gone through ArM5, could you find more spells that pushes the limit?

You do make a good point based on the core rules. It doesn't make an incredible amount of sense when thinking in terms of the particles of species developed later on, but it might be better not to take that theory too literally.

I'm not sure what's more "natural" about moving an image than about altering the color scheme, but a certain degree of arbitrariness is probably necessary for the whole Im system.

I think the key here is to think if the species as particles complete with their own essential nature. That is, the essential nature of a particular species of green 'light species' is to be 'light' and 'green'. Thus to change their color is Muto, where as changing their position is Rego, just the same as if we were talking about a stone.

Think of species as a wind blowing out in all directions originating from an object. If it was a real wind, you would use ReAu to control the direction of that wind; making it blow from a different point, or redirecting its flow. However, if you wanted the wind to be fog instead, you would need to use MuAu to achieve this.

Species are no different. They radiate from an object in all directions when light strikes it. The colour of an object is a property of that object, and you could use MuTe to turn (say) a red ruby blue; it would then generate blue species for the duration of the spell. But you can also make the red species blue using MuIm - the species cannot naturally be blue, because the object they originate from is red. This must therefore be Muto as well.

ReIm affects the 'flow' of the species from the object, making them appear to come from a different place. This is not a 'natural' change but the species could flow from that spot naturally -- if the originating object was there. Likewise, a rock cannot 'naturally' suddenly be 15 paces away, but ReTe can achieve this, because the rock could be in that spot (another reason why I don't like instant transportation into a sealed location: it's not 'natural' - but that's another thread). A&A discusses this issue further in terms of differentia. A substance's location is one of its ten differentia, and this is altered by Rego*.


*I realise this is a post hoc argument - Location is under the control of Rego because Rego moves things; but what else could ReIm do if it didn't do this?

Alright, that makes sense.

Since we started talking about color, does a prism work in Mythic Europe?

Victim's Parma*, but the argument that instant transportation isn't "natural" requires the idea that when an object moves from point A to point B, it must necessarily inhabit each of the points in between momentarily. To me this doesn't seem like a necessary feature of metaphysics....

  • I just realized that one of my players took my A&A home after the last session.

Same thing here. An object couldn't naturally be in the same place as another one. But, otherwise, he could be there.

"In Isaac Newton's time, it was believed that white light was colorless, and that the prism itself produced the color."

We are talking about an era where diamond were d8-shaped, 5 centuries before the first brilliant cuts. Science and technique still have a long road ahead.

That pre-Newtonian view has been attributed to Roger Bacon, writing generally within the AM period, although I'm not sure he was actually using the triangular prism we're familiar with. Bacon's theory on optics differed substantially from the AM Aristotelean theory however.

It also seem to me that, under the pre-Newtonian view, the prism (or for that matter simple stained glass) is changing the color and must be doing it in a "natural" way.

If tuning instruments you would use Rego Animal to control the vibrations. Though you better have some Music or Philosophae (having an understanding of Pythagorean tuning).

Finesse should be used for Muto if you are changing only a small part of something else. For instance Muto Ter to change only a part of a stone bust into gold, or Muto Animal to change every other black fur on a dog to brown or a more detailed pattern. So in the case of Imagenem and sound, you would need to use Muto not Rego to change the notes, however subtle changes, requiring finesse (pun intended) you would use Finesse. Though without a musical understanding I'd cry foul. Rego you use to control Forms through magic. Finesse you use to control your magic. The two pair together obvious, I think using Finesse with other techniques is not so obvious.

Euclid is the Authority on optics (unless you're Arabic though thats a big can of worms), rays shoot out of your eyes to detect the species. Light only determines how well you can detect.'s_Optics
You cant change a color with Rego, just like you cant change a limestone rock into gold with Rego. To change the nature of a thing requires Muto.

Note: I would think you could use Rego on sound, with an understanding of music, to control the sound to prevent it from bouncing off walls or control the species that are detected coming off the walls. Control the sound coming from the audience, so that it seems extremely far away, thus undetected... Control the sound to seem like it comes from certain points in a large room, like speakers.