Got mine delivered yesterday. Haven't really got a good chance to look at it though. Looks like auras got an overhaul. Will be interesting for covenants with auras of 6+.
Stephen
Ok, still reading RoP:M atm. It's a massive amount of information in one book. But, unless i'm reading this wrong, you could have this :-
A magus living in a level 4 aura in some way becomes a transformed human. Assume he has, and keeps, a Might of 0 (but has some qualities, to retain his magic human status). He can no longer study his summa to learn the arts, instead must learn new magic qualities. He consumes ZERO vis (0 might = 0 vis), and gets die + 4 experience towards a magic quality (assume 10). He learns improved abilities, and gets 50 experience points to spend. Repeat all year, 200 experience.
Have i read wrong? or have i not read enough of the book yet?
I've never really tried creating, much less advancing, a character created with the new rules, but I think you might have to subtract the character's Arts Scores from his Advancement Total.
On a side note, I'm tempted to argue that you can't consume 0 pawns of vis - you either consume vis (at least 1 pawn) or you don't! I haven't found anything in the rules to back me up yet though... 
Baron,
That's a pretty cheesy exploit, and think we all would agree that it shouldn't work like that. 
My first thought was the same as Gremlin44's, that if you consume vis there must be at least one pawn, just like when a magus studies from vis (which is basically the same mechanic) and for a Magic character, that will also trigger a roll on the Vis Consumption table every season, which means interesting things should happen.
I recall there being a line or two in there somewhere about Might 0 and how it basically works like Might 1 as far as when a character loses a point of Might and things like that. Maybe in the Spirit Chapter?
Yeh, it is cheesy, but it seems close to what happens. There is mention of reducing xp by supernatural abiltiy scores, but not art scores. Maybe an oversight, but the reduction doesn't apply at all when consuming vis for xp. Even if you (quite rightly) impose a minimum of 1 vis restriction, it's still 200 xp per year for 0-1 might characters, for only 4 vis.
You mean, this is what you imagine magi who have been transformed by magic doing with their immortality? I suppose they might, but all those experience points in Abilities or Arts are going to go to waste if the character never does anything with them. The saga will be much more fun if events transpire to pull the character out. By the character consuming more than half his Might Score in pawns of vis, the player will have to make a Vis Consumption roll at the end of the year, and that might cause some interesting events. But simply being a magical being will cause some stories on its own, because many magi will argue that the character is no longer human, and therefore not a member of the Order of Hermes.
I'm not especially inclined to limit this sort of thing in my sagas, because I can usually come up with ways to make interesting stories out of it, and the player usually has a good time being coaxed away from his studies so that he can show off his new powers. I don't see it as much different than a lab rat who spends all his time making new devices, or a magical researcher devoting every season to experimenting on his Hermetic theory. A lot more experience than is typical for magical study can be gained this way, it's true, but it's also unstable experience since it is always possible Acclimation will take it away again.
I believe that's only when a Gifted character is learning new Supernatural Abilities; you subtract Might Score in addition to the scores in other Supernatural Abilities that you always have to subtract. Arts are part of this, as described in the core rules. But that's not what you're suggesting here.
Possibly. You'd need to roll a 6 or better, or you don't have enough experience to gain the Quality that season unless you also take a Flaw.
The rules also provide two other obstacles to this plan. Firstly, you can't consume more pawns of vis in a season than your Might Score, so a magical magus with Might 0 wouldn't be able to benefit from consuming any vis. Secondly, you can only spend experience gained from Practice, Adventure, or Teaching on Qualities. For my current saga, I feel that studying from vis by consuming it is similar enough to Practice to allow it, and perhaps you agree, but technically it isn't Practice and so by a strict interpretation of the rules, the character can't do this.
Hm, this is a very dense book. Lots of crunchiness, but a fun read thus far.
Can't wait for Faerie now!
V
I think the consumption roll is only if the vis was consumed to avoid acclimation. It's a similar use, but i don't think i'd make a player roll, the number of botch dice that would result if a high might creature tried it would be staggering.
This sounds familiar, but i can't find it. But the book has a LOT in it. I thought it may have been mentioned with the section on using vis to replenish the might pool, but i can't find that either 
. You have a page reference?
No, says you can also gain xp simply by consuming vis.
I think i'll house rule it.
Can gain experience from all the normal sources.
Penalty is might score /5 round up.
Xp gained from improved abilities during play can only be used to fill out abilities natural to that creature that weren't taken to their normal limit during character generation. Possibly supernatural abilities too.
That seems quite low. Really.
Right now, I don't see a way to fix the loophole aside from laying down the law with the players: "it's a loophole, let's not abuse it, OK?"
Page 29, near the bottom of the third column.
Are you sure? Do you have a page reference? The middle of page 52 clearly limits experience spent on Qualities to that from "practice, adventure, or a teacher" and while consuming vis can lessen the penalty to the character's Advancement total, I don't think it ever increases it.
Keep in mind that the limitations on magic characters retaining their knowledge and powers over time is necessary to keep them balanced when they are compared to other characters. If you proceed this way, I'd love to hear more about how this dynamic works out in your game. But it could be that it isn't so much of a concern, since Acclimation can be avoided fairly easily at low levels of Might.
I'm hoping it's not too bad. Not tested of course, so it may be a terrible idea. But it allows Polymathes the dragon to read his library slowly, rather than not at all.
Thanks. It's per activity, not per season, so wouldn't stop it.
Page 52, 3rd column, middle paragraph.
I hope that this never comes up in my game, i'm just trying to stay one step ahead of the players 
Umm, regarding that magic character advancement issue.
I think that the advancement rules are at heart solid, and that the decoupling of Might and de facto power-level seems to be the problem.
So a house-rule along the lines of "For every Magic Quality bought with XP points, the Magic Quality Improved Might must also be bought once" should probably be enough.
Example: A character wants to buy Improved Abilities. This costs him 10 XP as usual. But because of the house-rule he must also buy Improved Might, costing him another 10 XP for a total of 20 XP.
Am I on the right track here? Or did I overlook something?
Just got my copy last night. Absolutely brilliant!
Must read more 
The trouble is, might is easy to get rid of. Instead of 10 + 10, for a quality and a might increase, you could spend 5 + 10, for a quality and an inferiority and a might increase. If the inferiority were Reduced Might, then might stays the same, just the cost goes up slightly.
Or, don't take an measures to avoid acclimation, and reduce might that way.
OK, how about that?
"Improved Abilities can only be taken at character creation and is not available through the Transformation rules. In play, Magic beings wishing to improve their abilities must find an appropriate source and, if necessary, offset the Might penalty through consumption of Vis."
This closes the "a bit of vis gives a lot of experience" loophole by pointing back to existing rules.
Why would Polymathes want to read his books? They're treasure, he hoards them, right? Besides, he's already pretty badass as far as Abilities go. Is it really that important that the rules allow him to grow in that direction instead of by gaining more Qualities?
Studying from vis is an activity. You can't do it if you have Might 0. And as I see it, if you have Might 1 and consume at least one pawn of vis that year, you'll still need to roll on the Vis Consumption chart, even if you can avoid Acclimation another way. The vis affects the character, you see.
You count all vis consumed, regardless of its purpose as counting towards preventing Acclimation?
(Oh, and by the way, my suggestion doesn't prevent someone from, say, taking Improved Attack repeatedly and becoming a combat monster. 
)
Sure, it's more fun that way, isn't it?
If it's appropriate to the character, why not? Magic creatures are fearsome opponents. I think the rules do warn that all Magic Qualities should be essential qualities of the character, so there is a chance to veto, but if you're making a dragon, for example, or a fierce hunting animal, Improved Attack seems a fine way to spend your points.
Yeh, I initially didn't like that approach. But i'd forgot that virtues that give a supernatural ability also give a score of 1 in that ability, so still allowing a creature to develop a supernatural ability without requiring a teacher. I think i like this.
Because he likes them? It says he reads them sometimes, and has gained some abilities by doing so.
Oh, you're right. A might 0 creature couldn't do it, though a might 1 creature could. But a might 0 could still gain 5 xp through practice
Hmm, i don't think i'd do that. I can see the arguement for it, but i think it a stronger one against.
But it was a really nice solution otherwise. Very clean-cut.
I'm starting to think that Improved Attack is a worse problem than Improved Abilites though. Abillites "flat out" naturally. Getting Single Weapon 1000 is still rather tricky. Improved Attack, on the other hand, will grow linearely. Improved Attack x1000 is, with the rules as written, not all that unrealistic.
All right. But let's say that you have to buy back all Might lost before you can buy more qualities? You could still lower your Might in order to study without penalty, but that should be OK.
Example: A character buys Improved Attack and Improved Might three times. He then loses 3 points of Might to Acclimation. Before he can buy Improved Attack (or any other Magic quality) he needs to improve his Might four rather than three times. (three for the lost Might and once in order to buy the next one).