Relics and Scourging the Infernal: How to deal with it ?

Games Discussion Ars Magica
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Hi everyone,

In my Campaign, one player have the Powerful Relic Virtue from the Divine Realm book.

My problem is that: It's way too much powerful from what i see.
After reading the rules for the third time, i try to summarize what my PC got from the Relic and well, it's really really a lot. But i've got nearly two majors issues.

One; 3 Faith Points, it's 30 Divine Might who protect the character against... A lot of magic, feerie and infernal problems. 30 Divine Might is a lot of defense against supernatural.

Two: Scourging the Infernal... 30 feet of aura who repel Infernal Might less or equal to 30, and deal 30 damages to anything with Infernal Might who can enter anyway. I've try to look in the Infernal book, but even the mightiest of demons in there is just instakilled if he enter this aura.

And even if, in my opinion, demons and Infernal isn't at all about fighting and dealing damages (it's more about corruption and dangers for the soul), the fact is that even the mightiest of demon can't approch the character without self explosion in a glory of holy fire. Corrupted humans can deal with the character, i know too, and the relic can be stealed, etc...

But in the end, if i just build everything to bypass his relic, well... What's the point of having one ? I don't want to do that. But Powerful Relic is so powerful and so absolute that i don't really know what i can do other than that.

Relics Mechanics and Powerful Relic seems just TOO much powerful to me.
Can i have your thoughts about this ?

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... but what if the demons starts corrupting all his friends? How does the relic bearer react? What can he do to protect others?

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Yeah. Possibility for NPC friends and relatives.
But i'm not fond of this option for PC characters. Because it's will be far more problematic for the others PC who's being corrupted (and risk they souls and lives) than him in final.

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corrupt him - i guess he gets very proud if having such a mighty relic. let lesser demons come to him in hordes (send by a mighty demon, who want to corrupt him), the relic kill the demons, and if he shows pride - you got him (other deady sin will work too i guess, if good played)

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Powerful Relics typically come with big, well known legends. When Francis died, the militia of Assisi in arms marched to the Portiuncula and retrieved his body.

Will the PCs of your campaign stand up against their local bishop followed by a city militia to defend the Relic? Will they rather themselves sponsor a pilgrimage site at their covenant to be visited by the faithful? How do they handle the fame of the Relic? Or how do they prevent the Relic's fame from spreading?

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That's always the issue when there is a strong power (whatever it is): you want the character to enjoy it, but you don't want it to become a constant game solver.
First, does the character behave in a pious way ? At any moment, the benefit of the relic can be suspended if the character is not acting according to the faith's tenents.
Second, it is so powerful that it will also weaken, slowly, the magical aura of the covenant. Maybe the character should consider living outside so it does not destroy the magical aura.
Thirdly, the Divine might weaken other aura as well, even if only temporarily, making it impossible to enter a regio. Then the character has to choose between entering the regio without the relic or leaving the relic behind. If he enters the regio, then he is not protected anymore from the Faerie Queen powers.

And if you want to temporarily deprive him from the Relic - maybe as a test of faith, he must let the relic at the Heart of an Infernal regio for several years to completely erase it. That's the only way to allow a doomed village to be saved and redeemed. Then for 5 or 7 years (just long enough to have an impact on the character development), he does not have the protection of the relic.
On the other hand, if he remains faithful despite being deprived on his powerful relic, he could gain one permanent faith point - after all, it is a serious sacrifice to let his relic behind to save a village.

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Overall, starting a Saga with a MR of 30 is seriously limiting the ST option. If it becomes such a burden, then you should have talk with the player and ask him if he could take another virtue as it is too much a game-breaker for the saga you have planned.

Be open about it, and don't try to find convoluted ways to go around it. I had to tell my players for one saga, that I did not want any InMe because I was planning to have a lot of investigation. That was transparent and it went smoothly.

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Thanks everyone ! A lot of constructive comments (everyone in fact).

About corrupting him: Yeah, could work. I suppose it depends what i call corruption in my Saga. Sin is not so easy to take (from what i read, sin need not only thought but also act on that thought at least in Christian Practices in the Divine Realm description), but Relic need more than just "not sin", it require devotion and piety. So, yeah, kinda solution (even if in fact, hordes of demons won't come on him since he repel them at 30 feets away and demons are not suicidal by themselves). But demons can manipulate some humans to same results.

About the fame: The question of the fame had not yet been adressed (Sage just starting) but yeah, could be something to explore. My problem is that he had take the relic far from the place he obtain it and i don't even know how much i can play on that fame. And yeah, they have a lot of soldiers and army (they play a military Covenant)

Pious way for the relic to work is in fact one of the thing i saw i can do to "control" the relic. For now, i'm gonna wait to see how he act. Will need to have a eye on him because i know the guy and... pretty sure at some time he will fail to be pious.
For the Aura, i've not thinking about that. Dominion come from practice of faith, from what i read. Not sure Relics interacts with them so much (but they can if i want it i suppose).

And yeah, it's something to start with MR 30. But it's not only that. It's only the 30 damages on every demon around him. Demons can't even approch him to try to corrupt him or lie, or anything. Even the more powerful demon (like King of Fire from Infernal Realm Book) just burst and die if to close to him.

The real problem for me is that i find it really difficult to play around this item and with the player. He's nearly immune to a lot of supernatural, everytime, everywhere, and burn demons like a superpowerful oven (Nearly an abyssal flamme on all demons around him). All of that is passive (don't even talk about active powers and Faith Points use). Divine is overwhelming for Infernal plots and two characters players have stories with demons.

I don't want my player to be scammed of a Major Virtue, but the Divine is so powerful and without Flaw (Except to be Pious, of course) that i find it difficult to be for players characters to use.

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Well... there are many things that can balance the virtue.

RoP:D p.9

MAGICAL REACTION TO THE DIVINE
When exposed to a Divine aura, the Gifted feel their magical power buffeted as though a candle flame in a strong wind, or suffer from headaches, pain in body parts often affected by magic, or a short temper. Most importantly, the hubris of Hermetic mages (and other powerful magical practitioners and beings) is called into question in a Divine aura. Under the gaze of the Divine, the might of The Gift feels reduced to but a dim spark.

Some people can be overwhelmed by a powerful Divine aura, experiencing a temporary state of intense piety during which they are utterly intoxicated by the mystical experience of the Divine. This is most common when visiting pilgrimage sites, such as Jerusalem’s Wailing Wall, the Church of the Holy Sepulcher, and the Dome of the Rock, and during holy periods such as Easter or Ramadan. During this time, they will feel intoxicated and obsess over a particular holy site, relic, or figure. After a few days, they gradually feel the need to be alone with God, are increasingly sensitive to sin and vice, and feel the need to constantly purify themselves.

Dominion ratings higher than five are achieved through extremely holy objects, or the relics of particularly exemplary saints, which must have more than five Faith Points. The Dominion is increased by one for each Faith Point the relic possesses in excess of five.

Empyreal auras often manifest as spheres, emanating from a fixed point, while a Dominion aura will extend to cover the area inhabited by the faithful. No one knows for certain why they take these shapes, although erudite Hermetic scholars imagine it is because the sphere is the most perfect of forms, and that the Dominion is intended to protect God’s worshippers.

An empyreal aura is a Divine aura that is untouched by worldly matters. It is different from the Dominion only in its source, which is usually a relic or the dwelling of a powerful divine creature.

Powerful Relics should probably have a divine role or be part of a greater divine plan such as this story seed:

STORY HOOK:
An angel disguised as a scholar asks for help in tracking down the tears of the Sandalphon, which fell to earth when the prophet Muhammad died. The two tears are powerful divine relics and are also being hunted by a diabolical coven, which wants to use the tears as arcane connections to Sandalphon and prevent him from carrying the prayers of the faithful to Heaven.

Keep in mind that a powerful relic, by its nature, might warp the Magi unless he has a divine merit/flaw that attunes him to the divine realm...

Finally, a powerful relic is well known and can be cumbersome. The Head of Saint John Baptiste has 5 faith points and ... is... a head.

W

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They have a coven. When the magus in question leaves the coven, it's time for the demons he's angered to take their revenge. Given the power of the relic, they sense him a mile away and he finds it impossible to force a confrontation without leaving the relic behind. Make the incursions irritating enough, without destroying everything, and he might be convinced to leave it at the coven for protection.

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It is a major virtue. By their very nature they are strong. 30 magic resistance is strong initially, but in time, parma will catch up. Also, the scouring the infernal is very niche. Unless you are planning a bunch of demon based scenarios, half the virtue is doing very little.

If you are planning a bunch of Demon scenarios, throw them in and have the character destroy the demons. He's paid the virtue points.

One time change it up. It's not hard to tempt a grog to steal the relic.

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I must precise something: The character who got this virtue isn't a Magus. It's a Companion. And i agree Parma will catch up, but, it's not my problem since it's a companion. Not more than the fact scouring the infernal is niche. If my players take story hooks who bring demons in play, i will put demons in play.

My problem is that the Powerful Relic isn't just a powerful tool against demons. It's a real nuke. For my part, Demons adversity isn't about fighting and killing demons (even if it's part of the fun with them). It's about deception, manipulation and demonic influence, and dealing and fighting with them for humans souls.

Powerful Relic is a real iron wall against all of that. MR make the character resist against a lot of powers (not only infernal). Scouring the Infernal is not only useful against demons for fighting, but even in social encounters, demons can't even walk near the relic without getting busted.

I agree it has flaws. Like being stolen, destroyed, needing his bearer to act pious and righteous. But when the Relic works, I'm worried even the mightiest of the Demon is helpless.

Anyway, my player and I have talked together, and he has switched with something else. So problem solved.

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