Requesting Your Opinions on a Couple of Related Issues (Securus Magnum Players Do Not Read)


I'd like your opinion on a couple of different but related bits that may come up in our game. We'll pause for this message from our sponsor the Enter Key to keep my players from inadvertently reading spoiler-y material. Continued below:

Situation One: if a magus were "converted" to a vampire, do you think he/it would retain spell casting abilities? To be specific, these are neither Faerie based or undead vampires, more of a supernatural predator with Infernal Might. A sort of quasi-demon that can reproduce biologically and also transform mortals into a similar form. (For those who've read The Dresden Files, I'm referring to Red Court Vampires as I outlined them for our game, contradicting Dresden canon on the reproduction thing)

Situation Two: If a person with the Gift were "converted" to a vampire with no magical education prior, would it then be able to learn magic if a teacher became available? (Again, Red Court as before).

Just curious as to peoples' opinions. If you don't mind I'd also like to know your reasoning behind your answer. I might be missing a huge potential issue here.

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There are a few noted transformations that seem to fall into two categories:

  1. Hermetic Mysteries. These are done using modified Hermetic magic and designed to work with magi. Spellcasting is maintained even if the Gift may be lost.

  2. Magic transformations. These are done without using Hermetic magic. Spellcasting is generally lost, with known spells tending to show up as powers.

On top of this there is the issue of Infernal Might and the Gift. You cannot have Infernal Might and the Gift.

But we have seen with one Hermetic Mystery that the Gift may be lost and spellcasting retained.

Maybe you can quickly recap what the red court is? Was that the vampires who are only fully transformed when they drink blood?

To me, this sounds like some kind of possession, where the possessing spirit can force the host to use their powers. In my mind, magic powers are lost if the vessel dies, whereby spirit and soul are banished, but if these are not undead vampires, I cannot see why the powers could not be retained.

We have RoP:TI p.84 box Characters with Might Scores:

No being with a Might score can have Virtues which affiliate them to another realm, for they are full members of the supernatural realm which gives them their Might. This includes The Gift, True Faith, Faerie Blood, Blood of the Nephilim (see Realms of Power: The Divine), and any Supernatural Virtues that draw on sources from a different realm than that of their Might.

So a being with Might aligned to Faerie, Divine or Infernal cannot learn Hermetic Magic, as it would need the Gift for that.

A Merinita maga might initiate HoH:MC p.93f Becoming. If she undergoes Transforming the Spirit and thereby acquires Faerie Might, this also transforms the way she casts her spells:

She may still cast spells and perform laboratory activities, but doing so costs her one Might Point for each magnitude of the effect.

You might design a similar Infernal Becoming - perhaps perfected by corrupted Tytali or old version Tremere - for your saga, which turns the recipient into

, but still maintains already existing spellcasting, now based on Might.

If the character get Infernal Might then The Gift even the false gift is sadly a no. But contradicting to what is written in RoP:TI 84 the becoming (HoH:MC 93) allow your to keep you spellcasting, although some kind of damaged while having Faerie Might.
But the infernal vampire version you want to use might not change the mage to a creature of might but instead give some tainted supernatural ability combined with some flaw.

Quite. Think about a magus contracting ArM5 p.55 Lycanthropy, and continue from there.

a infernal version of Spirtual Pact (RoP: M 88) could a other way to handle this.

I would bw wary of doing somwthing that woulr so dramatically alters the PC without extensive discussion with the relevant player.

Were is an NPC magus, then it is much easier. I woule just turn the known spells into infernal powers.

Maybe look into the Merenita Becoming mystery tree for inspiration?

If you are emulating Red Court there would be two stages of this - before they drink blood and afterwards. Before they drink blood (following Dresden) they would still be fundamentally human, and thus could remain Gifted, but would also be mortal, with associated traits relating to the infection as per lycanthrope. After they drink blood they are by Dresden no longer human and no longer possess free will, thus I would assume that the translation is they gain infernal might, becoming truly immortal and infernal, and would lose the Gift.

Thanks for your input, everyone. It took reading all of it to realize that the answer is actually in the novels of the world our game emulates. Not necessarily accurate to ArM as written, but accurate to "Dresden paradigm" to a certain extent. I can also use the Black Court as a precedent from the novels since in our Saga they are also creatures with Infernal Might. That latter precedent is explicit in the novel Blood Rites if not before. The precedent for the Red Court is IMO in Changes.