Requiem for a game

If we're heading the Scandinavian way, I'd like to play a character heading the opposite way - someone who is under orders to make sure we find a threat, whether there is one or not. Maybe a Tremere, told to maintain the house's contingency plan by making sure there is a threat from the "Order of Odin", or a Tytalus whose Cabal wants to make sure the Order has an opponent in the north to distract them from plans in the south.

I like ironboundtome's idea a lot. I also like the idea of the plague, for that meshes well with the gothicness. There is also the open question of what/who causes it and what can be done. These should involve factors "beyond" the disease itself, which means story potential and demand for non-healers.

Note that the Viktar guidelines in Hedge Magic Revised include a lot of sickness-healing abilities. Perhaps magical healing does not work at all? Why?

So, this spit-balling gives me a crazy idea.

Order in Flames!
A malady has struck many magi of the Order of Hermes. No one has been able to determine the origin or cause of the malady, but all magi know what it does. It destroys the Gift, the ability to wield magic directly. Those who notice the symptoms early enough seclude themselves within their sancta. Those who are near the affected magi notice that they use large amounts of vis. A few dozen magi have had their Gift entirely stripped away and moved, taking all of their possessions with them. Some people report new items that the magi made before leaving, some people say that the magi didn't have any new items. No one knows if the magi who are affected consume the vis to delay the disease's effects or use the vis to make items. Perhaps it is a bit of both? Magi with Corpus,Vim and/or Mentem specialties are reluctant to investigate the cause, lest they become ill, too.

Normandy and Roman Tribunals are in open warfare. The four major covenants of Normandy have abandoned their vassals and have begun warring openly. Confluensis was destroyed by a concentrated attack of the four other liege covenants, because they claim that the magi of Confluensis were infected and wished to prevent spread of the disease. House Guernicus didn't dispute that the magi in residence weren't sick, lending credence to their claim. Either they destroyed it too late, or they didn't understand how the disease is spread, because it continued to spread through Normandy. Novgorod has split from the Order of Hermes, closed its borders, destroyed all Hermes Portals leading into it and is killing magi who weren't already residents of the Tribunal prior to their secession. Trannsylvania and House Tremere are ill-equipped to deal with this kind of threat to the Order. They've closed their borders and have expelled a few magi, some of whom were infected, some whom are not, none of them were Tremere, though. They claim that they haven't left the Order, but that they are attempting to marshal House resources to address this threat, they have their best minds working on the problem.

With no safe refuges within the Order of Hermes' borders, groups of magi have begun to leave; groups are striking out for the Middle East, North Africa and Scandinavia. These groups do not form easily. Typically a magus submits to Frosty Breath of the Spoken Lie to prove he isn't sick, before the group forms, with each magus joining also submitting and proving himself, and then everyone submits again as they gather together to leave.

I'd throw the start date of such a saga to be just before the Grand Tribunal of 1267, say 1260 or so. The first recorded magus to lose his Gift due to the malady was in 1241, and since then about 1/5 of the Order has been affected by the malady. No one knows how long it takes to progress, what the cause of it is, or if there is any effective treatment. There are rumors that consuming vis can stave the effects, but it's hard to tell if that's really true, because so many magi who are affected leave with many new items.

Oh, and you can make a player with the malady, with the Dark Secret flaw. You know you're infected, you've managed to fool Frosty Breath of the Spoken Lie.

I'm not saying this is how the saga has to be, but I'll say that I'm jazzed about this story and it incorporates a lot of the ideas presented.

Excellent, this just keeps getting better. Perhaps the magi have heard of a potential cure or safe haven or something in Sweden?

A malady befelling the Order sounds interesting :slight_smile: I am pro it, if it could be wasting, dark and and withdrawn....like people become weaker and weaker...yet still maintain some power...I dunno...like the Nazgul maybe...so it's less "Oh I'll become ordinary" and more like "something will consume me!" :slight_smile:

Nobody knows what has become of the magi who lost their Gift and left covenants early on... :smiling_imp:

If this was third edition, my guess would be...
But that's too obvious.

The concept sounds like a LOT of fun. Where do you want us to go next? Suggest a location in Scandinavia? Go into further dtails about the magical disease (if it is a disease)?

Perhaps we should leave the truth about the malady to be discovered? It's source, style, and method of transmission are very interesting things. There are aspects of JL's concept that I think will be interesting to discover in play. It triggers many of the survivalist stories I've read.

I'll handle the malady. Working on that already.

I'm posting from my phone, so making this short. Need to discuss the age of magi involved, the kinds of magi needed in a colonization/refugee effort and the amount of resources available to the covenant. Concepts should be more or less whole, in that they can accomplish some primary player goal for the concept, with secondary goals to move towards. Don't take a slow burning character that needs lots of development in play, because it will probably be frustrating.

As a starting point for discussion, I've used these rules to approximate the resources mature magi have and how to advance post gauntlet.
https://forum.atlas-games.com/t/house-rules/8670/1
Note, magi get 10 xp per season post gauntlet. If you do lab work for a season, you just drop the 10 xp for that season. Finding a familiar requires a season to search AND a season to bind. Finding an Apprentice requires a season to find the apprentice, and then, of course, the 1 season per year of teaching.
Ignore the tractatus and summae sections in that post, they don't apply.

We can discuss the rules and I'll flesh them out and repost them when I have internet service or enough data on my phone contract, whichever comes first. :smiley:

age: How about ten to fifteen years post gauntlet? If we have much more than that, it'll become difficult for a story-guide to find adventures for these magi (short of besting the Fairie Queene). Some years are useful though, because magi at gauntlet cannot have a talisman and a familiar and a few years give a player the chance to individualize his or her character. If we make more, maybe we can set aside a number (8 or so) to the development of spells that would have existed in a real setting, but won't have much potential for in game use (e.g. summon the image of the exotic dancer, remove the smells of the loo, delouse, the cosy warm bed, open the nut, don't waste time on peeing (PeCo yourself), Icecream without calories, fire feed thyself...)

If you want a primary character goal, why don't we borrow from other rpgs a bit and make each player write down three aspirations (one primary and two secondary). Once an aspiration is fulfilled, pick a new one. This can be easier to reference for a storyguide than just the story flaw magic animal companion:

e.g.
Pralician
primary - recruit new members to the Order of Hermes in the cold lands of the north to replace those taken by the disease (young, healthy lines of magi)
secondary - improve InVi to become better at opening the arts
tertiary - bind your magic animal companion as a familiar and enchant the bond in many ways

As a character, I am more inclined than ever to play a Pralician, a small mute man with a raven called Mjolnir sitting on his shoulder that does his talking (it's nice to have someone you can address in a post, because writing dialogue is easier than monologue. The character would be perceptive. His magics would cover mostly four fields (besides utility spells):

  1. InVi for opening the arts (few spells though because o his supernaural ability)
  2. Improvng the magic animal familiar, including communication, MuAn to size +2 so he can ride his raven
  3. Spells that allow communication (Me or Im), not sure yet
  4. Battle spells would be mostly PeVi since he's good at Vi anyway (we'd need a houserule to nerf those a little. Your spell mastery house rule might do the trick). He wouldn't be a hoplite anyway - this is mostly so he can play a part in battle (rather than deciding it single-handedly)

So to sum it up with the suggestions.

We play in Scandinavia - probably Sweden, probably with a few more covenants in Norway/Denmark/Sweden.

Our magi are about 15 years out of Gauntlet - capable, but by no means all powerful

A malady has struck the Order of Hermes which targets the Gift, waning and then disappearing. This has created everything from fear, paranoia to open warfare

We need to have a primary goal and two secondary goals (not necessarily story flaws) that sets the tone for how we want to contribute to the covenant/spend our time/help create progress towards curing the malady

The tone of the saga is gothic.

We start in 1260

The Order of Odin needs to be...dealt with? Investigated? Invited to join?

tl;dr version: pick any age you want to play, to accomplish a primary character skill/spell something that the character can do well at the saga start and then pick additional things that you can grow into. I'm not going to place a restriction on character age, if the players want to self-limit, that's up to them. I can see a 60 year PG magus deciding to get out, and taking as much as he can with him, but being smart enough to know he needs the assistance of other magi in his endeavor.

There's no need to be so self-limiting about age, and when I mentioned characters' ages above, it's more of an individual choice. Remember, my SG style is that there will usually be one, maybe two, rarely three magi together on an adventure. Adventures will be designed with a focus on a particular magus who is a star, along with any companion/grog characters who might come along. This way stories keep progressing without me having to intervene. It's true that we might wait on the player of a companion or the grogs, but we can explain away actions undertaken in the player's stead merely by pointing to the magus forcing his hand, so to speak. Obviously, if it is a companion focused story, that changes, but I think it's clear that if you plan episodes to star certain characters, they are the ones who can move the ball so to speak.

This is kind of how Story Flaws are supposed to work. You retire a story Flaw and gain a new one, or perhaps you gained one prior to resolving that story and earned a new one along the way. The story Flaw is a focus for the kinds of stories you are interested in participating in with your character. The Hooks for the covenant are the same, and so it is important that all of the players buy into the Hooks selected. If you pick Tormenting Master, it obviously means that your Master is a refugee of the Order and has followed you here. Perhaps he's banded together other magi to form a competing covenant, but it's not as well organized or he's the dominant force, and if you defeat him, you end up defeating them all. I'm not saying you, or anyone should choose this particular story flaw, I'm just describing how I would flesh it out, with the consent of the player in their development phase.

Moving on to covenant development, I'm strongly considering doubling the allocation of build points described by the link above. I haven't worked through the math, but this would be all of the resources that will exist at the start of the saga. Previously I've also had players spend build points collectively to create the covenant as it exists in play, but it should be clear to all that there is no covenant at play. It's a spring covenant, albeit in an unsettled part of Mythic Europe (Hermetically speaking). Of course, I'd ratchet down the amount of vis that can be used in development and that can be brought. I think it's pretty fair to say that a spring covenant has to go vis hunting early on.

I think I have enough potential players to request a forum. Until we get one, let's continue posting here.

Based on the title, I probably set the tone for the saga from the outset. Sometimes I outsmart myself. :smiley:

Thinking out loud
For more traditional sagas, I'd allocate a quantity of build points to the player for them to build the covenant over and above the build points I grant directly to the player. That doesn't make as much sense in a refugee scenario. It makes more sense that the magi pool together whatever they have. However, my system may not provide enough build points. I may allocate more build points based on how I see things shaping up, I need to do some math. Also, if most of the players end up bringing a lot of vis into the saga start, I will probably throw a variant of Flawed/Illusory resources to pare down the amount of vis available and spur vis hunts.

As a means of hiding the secret of a character possessing Dark Secret, I am also offering the option taking Flawed/Illusory resources. Be that 60 year PG magus who promises vast resources to the new covenant to be founded in a strange land and shows up as a pauper. Does he have the malady or is he just parsimonious with his resources, sharing just enough to be accepted by the other magi. Players who pick the Dark Secret flaw, selecting either option will have to deal with attempts by players to try and trip him up and reveal his secrets. I'll issue narrow rulings on what is player knowledge and what is character knowledge, neither of which may be satisfying to either side in the matter. We will work out exactly what the Dark Secret is via PM.

In homage to Carrie Fisher - here is my take on a character, a former Princess of Denmark.

Melkorma filia Holmlad ex ?

Born 1167, apprenticed from 1177-1192. Hermetic years as a maga: 67, beginning her 68th year in 1260 at the start of the saga.

Born Princess Margaret of Denmark, Melkorma was among the eight children of Valdemar the Great of Denmark and his spouse Sophia of Minsk. Margaret was born into what was the first truly stable period in the danish monarchy for some decades, and enjoyed a life of luxury compared to her countrymen. Summers were spent alternating between the royal castles at Roskilde and Ribe, winters usually at Jelling. Good teachers were provided, even if the bulk of interest from her parents went to her brothers. This stung, and left a lasting mark, which haunts her to this day – am I really good enough?
As her Gift was gentle, no one really noticed its manifestations as anything but happenstance, good luck, sudden chills that had to be from open doors and so on. The great bishop Absalon of Roskilde saw more in her, and not sure of what he really thought, he introduced her more and more to the nunneries of Roskilde. Margaret found the sisters pleasent, but boring. She was happy to learn latin however and letters. Assuming she would marry some prince one day, she settled into this and tried to be a good daughter.

Things changed in 1176 when a pleasent man visited court. Nothing remarcable about him as such, he was a lowly courtier with a manor or two in Jutland. After the etiquette had been cleared up, surprisingly Margaret was to meet this man, Holmlad. In her mother's little garden, on benches, she met her Master. He looked handsome, if somewhat stern, and first Margaret thought she was to be betrothed to him. They spoke about things normal for a child, and he showed her magic. Mightily impressed, but actually keeping her cool more than she would think herself capable off, he asked if she would be interested in learning this? Having spent quite some time in the nunnery, she relented and excused herself. She went straight to bishop Absalon, who was also visiting at that time. When she spoke of Holmlad, he quickly ushered out his servants and spoke to her as if they were both adults. He told her that he had asked and prayed for God's wisdom, and that if his heart could decide she would join a convent, but God had spoken to him, and told him that she was to ponder the mysteries of God's creation in another way. She had to go with Holmlad and learn from him, and that her father had already accepted this.

Thus started Margaret's apprenticehood. Holmlad was an eremite magus, who was constantly dodging accusations of tampering with mundane politics. How he avoided making a mess of taking a princess as an apprentice, Margaret does not know but she has a feeling, more was paid and bargained for than he knew. In the beginning she joined him at his house near Skanderborg Lake in Jutland, where she was officially to be known as Margaret, his cousin's daughter from Sønderborg. Mistress Margaret thus grew up in a somewhat unusual environment for a hermetic apprentice. Holmlad was quite capable of teaching her, but she was not really exposed to other magi before the Tribunal of XXXX, travelling to Durenmar. This was an exhilirating trip for her, and she was allowed to correspond with other apprentices she met there.

Her apprenticeship ended in 1192, and though thinking about continuing with her life in Denmark proper, she decided against it and travelled to Novgorod for a time, visiting her mother's relatives as well as contacting a covenant on Ösel off the coast of present day Estonia. As Ösel was actually part of Denmark at the time, she managed to juggle both covenant life, as well as keeping a tabs on what happened with her family. However as things always turn out royalty, her family was spread across Europe, her mother remarried after her father's death and she became estranged from her former home. At Ösel she managed to manuever well in hermetic politics and though times were hard for the little covenant, it prospered as well it could.

The years went by with Margaret, by now known as Melkorma, training an apprentice, binding her familiar and creating her talisman. Left with a youthful countenance forever, she dappled in some mundane politics, some hermetic politics, but never really had a remarcable impact on the order. That is until the malady struck....

Possible Houses: Jerbiton, Guernicus, Bonisagus (Trianomae), Mercere

Probable Virtues: Gentle Gift, Educated, Unaging, Social contacts (magi), Well-travelled

Probable Flaws: Low self-esteem, Heir, Dark Secret (debt of her Master to the Royal House of Denmark), driven (keep her friends safe from the Malady/keep Scandinavia safe from enemies)

Probable Arts: Mentem, Vim, Herbam (maybe)

We have a forum, much faster than I expected, and to be truthful, was ready for.
viewforum.php?f=80

Please check out the HR & CD thread. Create your magus threads. If you have a question about creating a magus throw it into the discussion thread, to leave your magus thread as clean as possible. If I make a new ruling, let's try and add a link to the specific post into the magus thread. I'll make corrections with strikethroughs to preserve what was there. Sometimes have to take a couple of swipes at explaining what I want.

I'll throw my hat in the ring if there is still an opening.

You bet, jebrick, come on down!

Still looking for another player or two...

I could join but I'm already on a lot of sagas... I'm always tempted, specially when I see the SG is a well known face of the forum. What's the posting rate you expect ?