Rhine and HoH:MC contradiction?

I don't know if this has already been discussed but in the HoH:MC book it says that Bjornaer hate skin changers and using magics to change into forms not associated with their Heart Beasts. Now in Rhine their home covenant says that the leader of the shield grogs of the wolf clan has always been a skin changer and the bear clan uses magic items to turn into bears. Is this a contradiction or am I missing something?

I thought they sometimes take them under their wing to see they do no harm?

There is a difference between Skin-Changers (Minor Virtue) and Shapeshifters (Major Virtue). The Bjornaer magi hate and fear the latter. The former are using magical items to change shape; although this is distasteful to many Bjornaer magi, it is not a reason to hate them.

The difference is really whether the ability to change shape is innate (Shapeshifter, Heartbeast) or external (Skin-Changer, MuCo spells).


How do they feel about werewolves? I have a companion character who is a Dhampir with the Lycanthrope flaw.

I don't like him.
When I find out he is a werewolf I will know he is a vile thief of our ancestral spirits and have a good reason to hate him properly :smiling_imp:

He never stole anything! Look at him like an autistic child. The anscestral spirit is to overwhelming for him and just toakes total control when the moon is full. However, a magic item that allows him to change into a wolf at other times and keep his human mind, that would be wicked awesome :smiley:!

Just a note on the side here, when it comes to the description of the covenfolk of Crintera. If I remember correctly, the wolf clan are using axes because of the "sweeping motion of the wolves' claws when they attack".

Thing is that wolves have rather blunt claws, not used in taking down prey. :unamused: The "business end" of a wolf is in it's jaws.

Bjornaer Magi would know. :slight_smile:

Anyway, back to topic... I always believed that Bjornaer had their hatred mostly on the Pomeranian shapeshifters, not shapeshifters in general. Of course, they don't respect shapeshifters at all, but their hatred is reserved for the Pomeranian witches?


I believe pity is mentioned in HoH:MC. Of course, pity is a strong motivation for a mercy killing...:slight_smile:


The Pomeranian ones are their declared enemies, but all shapeshifters (that is, anyone who can take multiple forms) are soul-thieves.


Thank you everyone, that clears it up a bit :slight_smile:

GotF isn't clear on the matter, saying "Several [of the covenfolk] can change shape, either due to their own power or because of magic given them by the magi"; this strongly hinted at Shapechanging rather than Skinchanging to me, but I can see the only examples given are of Skinchangers, so this makes the contradiction fade. Thanks!

There, is however, another contradiction. GotF says,

whereas HoHMC says

HoHMC considers the heartbeast unknown, and mentions that its existence for mundanes is a "well-kept secret of Clan Ilfetu"; GotF provides an easy way to ascertain the heartbeast, and a strong indication that mundanes also have heartbeasts.

It's a side effect from the regio, not a magical procedure for investigating one's heartbeast. And anyway, it is a good reason to hold the Gathering of Twelve Years at Crintera if you want to guarantee success. It also explains why House Bjornaer is quite panicked with the invasion of Rügen and is threatening to strike back at the mundanes.

Though unfortunate, contradictions aren't surprising considering the extent of the House and how GotF is an early 5th edition book. If you look at it, its mysteries mechanisms do not quite fit either.

Depending on whether I reuse the old Animal Powers site somewhere else and whether the two Bjornaer magi in my saga do end up visiting Crintera, I might just leave that aspect out. While it was an obvious choice, I'm not too happy with that Domus Magna's description. :frowning: Oh,well, we'll see how things turn out.