Ritual magic question

This may be an obvious question but....

Can one cast a ritual spell WITHOUT vis, and have it last only temporarily? For example, cast "chirurgeon's healing touch" without vis, and have it last sun duration?

I believe that is how it worked in 4th ed., and I assumed that was how it still worked in 5th ed. until a game session last night.

Thanks in advance,

CHT was not a ritual in the previous edition, which is why it worked before. That is, it used to be a formulaic that had a short duration that vis boosted to Permananet.

No you can't. In fourth ed there were some formulaic spells that could be augmented with vis to get permanent (actually instant) durations. This vis boosting for duration was removed in fifth.

You've never been able to cast rituals as formulaic.

That being said there's no reason why you can' t cast a sun duration healing spell. you just need to research it separately or cast it using spontaneous or ceremonial magic.

Thanks fellas!

I've used Moon Duration Healing (+x to wound recovery) spells as emergency tricks to get wounded grogs back to the covenant (and our superlative moorish healer).

I suppose sun or moon healing spells will do the same thing, but in some cases allow them to actually walk back to the covenant.

Good story seed in trying to run the gauntlet of getting wounded (and temporarily healed) grogs back to the covenant without them getitng MORE wounded.

A varient of endurance of the bezerkers is a good thing to know too.