Ryce's Inner Heartbeast Question

One of Ryces most oft used killing tecniques is to turn into a dragon/shark/giant bear and maul, chomp and chew the bad/good guys. But this doesn't work against anything with Parma or MR, as without penetration, he bounces off that resistance.

However his heartbeast is a bear, and in heartbeast form he is treated as a mundance animal. So he is able, as a bear, to maul, chomp and chew his way through Parma.

He's now been offered Inner Heartbeast as he progresses through the Bjornaer cult, and the one he most likes the look of is elemental heartbeast. A bear of fire, or stone.

But my question is.. would this mean he now bounces off Parma?

It's still his heartbeast, So I would like to argue that he wouldn't. And that it's simply that he's now a magical creature (doesn't bounce), rather than that he's now a normal bear, with active magic on him to make him a fire bear (who therefore would bounce).

Our main SG (Gribble) suspects I'm right, but suggests we take it to the boards..

So.. does that sound right?


I agree with you. Run tell Gribble. :stuck_out_tongue:

I disagree intensely.

Fire and Stone are Santiago's niches!

Find your own cool powers, teddy boy! :stuck_out_tongue:

Well, others may of course disagree, but to my mind, the answer to your question pertains more to the issue of "essential nature" than it does "realm alignment".

As I understand the application of Parma, it is designed to protect against the effects of magic (including those which target the defender's own adversary him/herself but which, as constant effects, are intended to provide some offensive capabilities). By this I mean, specifically, those spells which might transform magus B into a dragon as you mention above, thus making him/her into an efficient beastly weapon wholly divorced from the magus's own essential nature.

In the case of the Bjornaer and his/her inner heartbeast, I would say that whilst the additional mysteries impart a spectrum of additional traits (virtues if you will) such as an elemental form, these traits remain nonetheless intrinsic to the essential nature of the inner heartbeast (which is itself an inherent evolution of the outer heartbeast form).

Thus, like the natural dragon whose claws and teeth are not stopped by Parma (unlike its more ranged powers), I would argue that the RAW gives no indication that the physical form of the Inner Heartbeast (even with the addition of the Anima Mystery trait) is any less a "natural" form for the Bjornaer magus. In this way, a Bjornaer Stone Bear should be treated as much as a normal bear when conducting physical attacks as would his fleshly heartbeast Bear form, the former being merely a "more perfect specimen" of the latter.

Of course as with any perspective offered here, YMMV. I simply do not see any suggestion that inherent abilities, however magical they might seem (and in point of fact the Inner Heartbeast advancements are listed as "supernatural" not "magical") are treated as such for purposes of MR. If, on the other hand, the Bjornaer initiate adds further refinement to this Inner Heartbeast in the form of "powers" (pg. 33 HOH:MC) then those, IMO, would indeed be stopped by Parma unless they possessed sufficient penetration as with any invested effect.

My two mythic pounds' worth at any rate...

I am tempted by the fire option mainly because as a bear consisting entirely of living flame, I'd be far more Fuego than Santiago :wink:

Thanks BoXer and YR7 :slight_smile:


I agree with Boxer.

Time for the Storyguide to make his ruling, bailiff, call the court to order.

I agree with Boxer. The bears are not magical effects, they are heartbeasts and as such part of the essential nature of the magus. They go through parma like a chilli through a cowboy.

Ryce, begin the stone bear carnage.......dear gods, what have i unleashed?

so which do you prefer, stone bear

or Fire bear

Why not lightning bear?

I think he will go for firebear, in any case. Just to annoy Santiago.

Xavi 8)

Just remember though that Fire-Bear or Stone-Bear, both will be severely hampered by water, muahahahaha! :smiling_imp:

Sink or sputter-out, boy, take your pick :wink:

And why not a carebear?

Now, you'll all fear Ryce's fearful hugs! :laughing:

What about a bananabear?

Fear the new incantation of Ryce: BALOO!!!! :laughing:


Gummybear would add the most flavour to the saga! :laughing:

Eat Ryce before he eats you :wink:

Look for the bare necessities
The simple bare necessities
Forget about your worries and your strife
I mean the bare necessities
Old Mother Nature's recipes
That brings the bare necessities of life

Wherever I wander, wherever I roam
I couldn't be fonder of my big home
The bees are buzzin' in the tree
To make some honey just for me
When you look under the rocks and plants
And take a glance at the fancy ants
Then maybe try a few
The bare necessities of life will come to you
They'll come to you!

Look for the bare necessities
The simple bare necessities
Forget about your worries and your strife
I mean the bare necessities
That's why a bear can rest at ease
With just the bare necessities of life

Now when you pick a pawpaw
Or a prickly pear
And you prick a raw paw
Next time beware
Don't pick the prickly pear by the paw
When you pick a pear
Try to use the claw
But you don't need to use the claw
When you pick a pear of the big pawpaw
Have I given you a clue?
The bare necessities of life will come to you
They'll come to you!

Yeah! This is really livin'!
So just try and relax, yeah cool it
Fall apart in my backyard
'Cause let me tell you something little britches
If you act like that bee acts, uh uh
You're working too hard
And don't spend your time lookin' around
For something you want that can't be found
When you find out you can live without it
And go along not thinkin' about it
I'll tell you something true
The bare necessities of life will come to you
They'll come to you

ohh none of you take Ryce seriously! :wink:

When Ryce is up to no good, he goes by the disguise and alias Darius Darkwater, his heartbeast probably needs a secret identity too..

have been thinking about possible elements:

lightning, shadows, something green and swirly, fire, water.


I'm gonna rule out the non-combat related ones like aquam, auram, shadow etc, Ryces heartbeast is all about the fight.

Think I need to rule out gummibear and carebear too, and basing one on a Disney movie just leaves him open to litigation :wink:

I quite like the idea of lightning.. probably same stats as fire (+10 damage to what he touches), altho, as Xavi says.. there are Santiagos feelings to take into account :slight_smile:

For posterity, Rice's new avatar:

looool!!! Love the firebear thingie :smiley:

Congratulations :smiley: