Seasonal Activities and Advancement

Play by Post Campaigns Ars Magica 5th Edition: Base Camp
181

LIke all the characters in the saga, the Cat and the Kitten have been through a vetting process in "Character Development". The discussion on the Kitten (which includes the issue of Personal Vis Source) starts here:

https://forum.atlas-games.com/t/character-development/5173/565

Quickly, though:

The cats don't belong to Viola--they came with her from Andorra. They're well-disposed to her, but I don't expect them to accompany her around.

The cats are Companions--my Companions. I did, however, let someone else play the Cat when she accompanied Viola in exploring the temple regio, so that I wouldn't be playing both characters.

The Cat and the Kitten are two, separate, and quite different characters. There's a reason there are two of them-: they were meant to play different roles in the story I had in mind when I created them for the Andorra saga, before things went bad there. Because of their different personalities and goals, I expect to play them separately in the future. They appeared in the barrow story together, because both had reasons to be there, and both had useful capabilities, but the SG in that case really didn't know what to do with them. You'll note that only the Cat came along on the temple story. I've got a new story in mind that will feature the Kitten, but I'll need to discuss it with CH or Salutor.

Personal Vis Source is normally a Hermetic Virtue. I think, however, that's not because of some mystical restriction (most other Hermetic Virtues are clearly Hermetic because they affect the use of Heremtic magic), but because, in the original rules, magi were the only characters who could make use of vis--I'm reasonably sure the Virtue would be suitable for a hedge mage Companion, for example. In the case of the cats, the sole use of the vis is to allow them to earn XP's. It's not Viola's, it's not the covenant's, and any magi wishing to use it would likely have to pry it out of their cold, dead hands.

Scott

182

I do note that by the end of the first year we were nowhere near the 40 pawns per year covenant vis income that a Personal Vis Source being 4 pawns per year would imply.

183

Yeah, that may be high. I for some reason thought 4 was reasonable at the time, but 2-3 might work better.

Scott

184

I'd suggest two unless our vis sources are likely to increase dramatically any time soon.

185

thanks!

So, it's not Viola's, and it has no official ties to the covenant... around 40 vis, you say?... hmmm... :laughing:

(And we wonder why there are no "talking animals" left today.) :wink:

186

Why kill the golden goose when you can use Rego Mentem?

187

Just taking that what the SG said at face value. :wink:

188

[ignoring the comment about killing the cats....]

I went back and checked the boosk, and figured out where I got 4, but let's go through this again....

I'm going to set an official target for vis income right now, so that I've got something to work off of. I'm going to figure the target can be achieved within the next few game years, provided the magi actively look for vis. I've posted my thoughts in Covenant Development, because that's where it really belongs. Once we make that decision, we can calculate the value of the cats' Personal Vis Sources on that basis.

Scott

189

Salutor, I just realized I still need a response from you on this post about vis allocation:

https://forum.atlas-games.com/t/campaigns-active/203/1

Since Gregorius and Viola are the only two PC members left, it's basically up to us.

Scott

190

Sorry - sounds reasonable.

191

I've made a change to Viola's and Constantine's logs for Summer 1227--I realized that Constantine was sitting on a pile of Ignem vis that he received on an adventure, and he's trading a couple of pawns of it to Viola for Imaginem vis (which is just as useful to him), so that she can enchant the regio temple with Magical Heating. I'll post updated character sheets for Viola, Constantine, and Theodoric tonight.

Viola

1226

Winter: Initiates Calliope into Potent Spontaneous Magic, then studies again from the Parma Magica summa (Study: +14=92 [5]).
Spring: Explores the faerie regio in the temple to Poseidon as a possible lab site. Spends the rest of the season investigating the regio, both to learn more about the curse and its effects, and to discover how to harvest the Perdo vis source in the upper level. Adv.: Faerie Lore, +5=56 (5)
Summer: Finishes setting up the lab, completing the work Constantine began in the Spring. Exp.: Magic Theory, +2=198 (8)
Autumn: Sits amidst the petrified men in her lab and studies Muto from Transformation (+20=80 [12]).

Correspondence with Calliope: Faerie Magic, +1=23 (2)
Corrrespondence with Salignus: Faerie Magic, +1=24 (2)
Corrrespondence with Theodolphus: Magic Theory, +1=199 (8)
Corrrespondence with Theoros: Magic Theory, +1=200 (8)

Vis Income: 1p Re from the covenant, 2p Mu from the faerie wine casks.

1227

Winter: Sits near various fountains within the covenant while studying Rego from Discipline and Restraint (+31=51 [9]). Tries repeatedly not to giggle at the title.
Spring: Has the covenfolk plant a garden under the open roof in her living quarters, and uses that location to study Creo from Portia’s Principia Fabricata (+20=39 [8]).
Summer: Enchants a stove with a CrIg (Int +4 + Magic Theory 9 + Inventive Genius 3 + Aura 5 + Lab General Quality 7 + Lab Items Spec. 4 + Cr 8 + Ig 5 + Shape Bonus 5 = 50) effect to maintain the temperature at a comfortable level (Level 2, +1 mag. Touch, +2 mag. Sun, +3 mag. Structure, +1 2 uses/day, +3 environmental trigger = 24), making her living quarters more comfortable and granting her lab Magical Heating (while also removing Defective Heating), at a cost of three pawns of Ignem vis, which she receives from Constantine in trade for three pawns of Imaginem vis; the Warping roll is a 4 (invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/4482154/), meaning no Warping. Exp.: Magic Theory, +2=202 (8)Autumn: Journeys to Aegea covenant with Calliope, seeking information that would help her lift the curse in the regio. Adv.: Order of Hermes Lore, +5=10 (1); Faerie Lore, +2=58 (4).

Correspondence with Calliope: Faerie Lore, +1=59 (2)
Corrrespondence with Salignus: Faerie Lore, +1=60 (2)
Corrrespondence with Theodolphus: Magic Theory, +1=203 (8)
Corrrespondence with Theoros: Magic Theory, +1=204 (8)

Vis Income: 2p An from the covenant, 2p Mu from the faerie wine casks.

Constantine

1226

Winter: Flits about while Viola studies.
Spring: Accompanies Viola in exploring the temple regio, then begins setting up her lab there.
Summer: While Viola finishes setting up the lab, learns about magic from her (Train.: Magic Theory, +11=119 [6]).
Autumn: Flits about while Viola studies.

1227

Winter and Spring: Flits about while Viola studies.
Summer: Assists Viola in enchanting the lab, after trading her three pawns of Ignem vis for three pawns of his Imaginem.
Autumn: Accompanies Viola on her trip to Aegea.

Scott

192

Where are you getting that a stove is a +5 bonus from? It doesn't seem unreasonable, but I can't see it in the lists.

193

It's not in the lists, but I figured that was about right.

Scott

194

There's Hearth at +7 (main book)? Probably less portable than a stove, but a bigger bonus (largely irrelevant given your lab total), and canonical. Technically I think the defined shape and materials bonuses are meant to be the only ones that exist (despite the fact that more keep being defined) - otherwise Vulgar Alchemy is even more useless than it already is.

195

Ugh, I forgot about that idiotic accretion. I hate when new rules take away am already-existing ability--and this one in particular makes very little sense. I realize it's the only thing that makes Vulgar Alchemy worthwhile, but unless someone has some attachment to that Virtue, I suggest we ignore the rule. At any rate, it's hard to believe no one has ever used a stove bonus before.

Also, I forgot Viola spent a season investigating the hypocaust, so I'll need to change that.

Scott

196

Technically, there was never an ability to create new bonuses, it just didn't explicitly say you couldn't. I know what you mean, though. I wouldn't have a major objection to house-ruling that out, but see what other people think?

197

Include one max as a "discovery" in the same season or project where it is used. I hate the need to discover these darn things. If a magus spends time actually investigating them in lab then they should be able to determine the range of bonuses a form might grant.
That said I do think there is a limit needed on how high the bonus can be, but troupe call is fine

198

I realize it didn't say so explicitly, but I think everyone assumed the list was only a list of examples.

I agree that any new ones have to be balanced with old ones, but I don't see what we'd get by having a "discovery" created as part of a larger project--the net effect would be the same as simply allowing anything plausible to work. Do you think there would be some advantage to that that I'm missing?

Scott

199

Whee, here's take 4 (5?) on the advancement for Viola and Constantine, taking into account now Viola's investigation of the hypocaust in Spring 1226.

Viola

1226

Winter: Initiates Calliope into Potent Spontaneous Magic, then studies again from the Parma Magica summa (Study: +14=92 [5]).
Spring: Explores the faerie regio in the temple to Poseidon as a possible lab site. Spends the rest of the season investigating the hypocaust in Gregorius’ lab. Adv.: Faerie Lore, +5=56 (5)
Summer: Investigates the temple regio, both to learn more about the curse and its effects, and to discover how to harvest the Perdo vis source in the upper level. Exp.: Faerie Lore, +2=58 (5)
Autumn: Experiments to enchant a stove with a CrIg (Int +4 + Magic Theory 9 + Inventive Genius 6 + simple die 9 [invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/4483088/] + Aura 5 + Lab General Quality 7 + Lab Items Spec. 4 + Cr 5 + Ig 5 + Shape Bonus 5 = 59) effect to maintain the temperature at a comfortable level (Level 2, +1 mag. Touch, +2 mag. Sun, +3 mag. Structure, +1 2 uses/day, +3 environmental trigger = 24), making her living quarters more comfortable and granting her lab Magical Heating (while also removing Defective Heating), at a cost of three pawns of Ignem vis, which she receives from Constantine in trade for three pawns of Imaginem vis. The Warping roll is a 4 (invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/4483089/) . Exp.: Magic Theory, +2=198 (8)

Correspondence with Calliope: Faerie Magic, +1=23 (2)
Corrrespondence with Salignus: Faerie Magic, +1=24 (2)
Corrrespondence with Theodolphus: Magic Theory, +1=199 (8)
Corrrespondence with Theoros: Magic Theory, +1=200 (8)

Vis Income: 1p Re from the covenant, 2p Mu from the faerie wine casks.

1227

Autumn: Sits amidst the petrified men in her lab and studies Muto from Transformation (+20=80 [12]).
Spring: Has the covenfolk plant a garden under the open roof in her living quarters, and uses that location to study Creo from Portia’s Principia Fabricata (+20=39 [8]).
Summer: Sits near various fountains within the covenant while studying Rego from Discipline and Restraint (+20=51 [9]). Tries repeatedly not to giggle at the title.
Autumn: Journeys to the covenant of Aegea with Calliope, seeking information that would help her lift the curse in the regio. Adv.: Order of Hermes Lore, +5=10 (1); Faerie Lore, +2=60 (4).

Correspondence with Calliope: Faerie Lore, +1=61 (2)
Corrrespondence with Salignus: Faerie Lore, +1=62 (2)
Corrrespondence with Theodolphus: Magic Theory, +1=201 (8)
Corrrespondence with Theoros: Magic Theory, +1=202 (8)

Vis Income: 2p An from the covenant, 2p Mu from the faerie wine casks.

Constantine

1226

Winter: Flits about while Viola studies.
Spring: Accompanies Viola in exploring the temple regio, then begins setting up her lab there.
Summer: Finishes setting up the lab.
Autumn: Assists Viola in enchanting the stove for her lab, after trading her three pawns of Ignem vis for three pawns of his Imaginem.

1227

Winter, Spring, and Summer: Flits about while Viola studies.
Autumn: Accompanies Viola on her trip to Aegea.

Scott

200

I was told very clearly on the forums (in the age old argument about swords not being crosses for S&F bonuses) that my view of allowing them to be created as needed as part of another lab process wasn't cannon, with the added fun of snide segways in the thread. The official line is apparently that the published F&S bonuses are all the Order knows about, and any more need to be discovered through dedicated lab activity. In my opinion that is total malarkey, but that was the line taken at the time. Frankly I think some of the book authors got their noses out of shape because that ruling invalidates an optional rule added in a supplementary book. The way alchemy et-al is treated in Ars is a joke to me, but hey, my sagas have always played differently to RAW.

Having them part of another activity was a way to not make it totally open for new ones on the fly during spont magic casting, and also so that the forum folks who love to make magic overly hard and totally dull still have something to do with their investigation method.