Shapeshifter / Skinchanger / MuCo-Spells question

Hi all,

I'm new to this forum so let me say Hello to all of you in the first place.

I have a question regarding the Virtue/Skill shapeshifter the Virtue Skinchanger and the MuCo-Spells allowing you to become an animal.
I haven't found an answer in the core rulebook (v5). So I hope to get some answers here or a hint where to look it up :slight_smile:.

What about your characteristics in the new form?

I guess the physical characteristics will be overwritten with the new form.
Intelligence will be the same as as human (because all 3 texts say you keep your intelligence).
Presence will be overwritten (you totally change yourself ...).
What about perception and communication.

If you can't communicate with anyone. Fine that's not a problem. But what if, however, someone will be able to communicate with you. I mean you are still intelligent and can think and can still use the words (etc) you want to use.
I think communicaton should be kept.
What about perception. I would argue nearly the same. You are still as perceptive as you are as human. You might become more senses (like scent for wolves) which gives you a +3 on certain perception rolls. And you might not be able to roll in specific situations (trying to spot something as a mole). But in genereal you still control your eyes.

Okay that was about characteristics

What about certain virtues?
Like tough. Will you have it in the altered form?
What about Strong fairie blood? Do you have darkvision in the altered form? If you picked blue blood will your blood as a bear also be blue?

And now about the abilities.
Do you still have your abilites (yes I know you have to be trained in this form - but let's say you used the form quite often)?
What if you shift into a wolve and the wolve has a better brawl(claws) ability then you have. Do you use the one of the wolve? Do you alway use the one of the wolve even if your attribute would be better?

A lot of unanswered questions.

And now the last one:
For the skinchanger it is clearly stated that his stuff does not change with him. For the MuCo-spells it is stated everything you wear is transformed.
What about the shapeshifter?
I would say as it is a major virtue and not a minor as for the skinchanger it should shift into the new form.
I know now someone might say as a shapeshifte you have more forms to shift into but for this you still have to spent XP.

Well your opinions ... or rulebooks where this is written :slight_smile:.


Hi and welcome to the forum.

HoH: MC contains rules for adapting a character's characteristics to their Heartbeast form, but it's probably easier to just use the animal's stats (only with Intelligence in place of Cunning). As well as guidelines for designing new animal forms.

The character's virtues and flaws still apply in animal form, but the animal-shape may also have it's own intrinsic virtues & flaws (as well as Qualities). Only the animal form's abilities are usable, however.

As for your last question, as I understand it none of the methods you've listed transform anything other than the character's body (Including Hermetic spells, unless appropriate requisites are included or all the character's clothes are made from animal produces).

Hope this helps,

What Gremlin said.

Generally, the idea is that the thing you change into is still "you" underneath, and deviates from the animal's norm like you do from the human norm. So if you're Lame (having that flaw) for example, so would be the wolf you turn to.

You retain your virtues and flaws, except for ones that make no sense in the new form. So yes, you'd still have Strong Faerie (Blue) Blood.

You don't quite keep your characteristics, but the mechanics in Mystery Cults are built so that if you're a strong human you'll be a stronger-than-average wolf, too. If you want, you can choose some other mechanic - your suggested one seems fine, except that I'd also change Perception into the animal's - an eagle has superior eyesight and so on, their senses are part of the animal nature you take on.

You get the average, usual, abilities of the animal, but also keep your own. So a person with a low Brawl score will still have his own Brawl skill, but would be better off using the wolf's. His human Brawl skill is probably inapplicable in the wolf form anyway, unless the storyguide says otherwise (wolves don't fight like humans do). In principle, it is possible to gain experience while in animal form and increase your animal abilities above their normal, average, values; this requires storyguide approval, if I remember correctly.

The MuCo spells allow you to change your gear with casting requisites, in my opinion; this is because your personal gear is subsumed under the Individual target and Personal range. You can't change your gear if you don't use the casting requisites (unless they're all made of animal parts).

Whether your gear changes under Shapeshifter is not something that the rules are clear about, to my knowledge. I'd say to go with what feels right for the character - I have no problem with two characters having the same virtue, and one able to change with cloths and one without. If you want a general rule, however, I'd suggest not to change cloths, for the simple reasons that this is how the Bjornaer Heartbeast works, setting a standard.

That's my opinion,