How does short range magic interact with spell area? For that matter how does range touch interact with spell area?
If the spell is range touch with an area room what do I have to touch? Anything in the room? Everything in the room? Does it matter what TeFo the spell is so that PeCo would involve touching every person in the room but PeAu would be fine just touching some of the air in the room?
Short-Ranged Magic does not interact with the Target ("spell area") of the spell at all. It is only concerned with the Range of the spell.
R:Touch and T:Room means you need to touch the room in question when casting the spell. Wall, floor, ceiling - any part of the room itself.
Which TeFo you use is irrelevant in this regard.
Thank you. The phrase "any part" is what I was wondering about.
And by extension, if the mage is inside the spell target (for example Room), he does not benefit from any special treatment. If it is a damaging spell for example, he will be equally affected, unless the spell was designed with a Rego requisit protecting the caster. He obviously benefits from his regular magic resistance, and would he have the adequate mastery, he would be better protected than most.
Great Hall of Fire (invented by the Li' Louis), CrIg 25 (Base 10, T: Room +2, R: Touch +1, Inst) would set fire for +15 damage to any occupants inside the room, caster included if he is not just outside the room, touching a door frame to safely cast the spell.
After a few unpleasant casting, Great Hall of Safe Fire, Cr(Re)Ig 30 was preferred, even if it means slightly reduce Penetration.
Makes sense.
My initial question was because I was wondering about how a short-ranged magus might deal with a pack of wolves. It seems I was correct that inside a room you could use an An spell but that outside you have no easy way to work around your flaw unless maybe it was a small group so that they could all be close enough to touch one and use the group target. Which naturally puts you right next to a wolf which isn't optimal.
Cast a Ward against mundane animals, and the wolves can't attack you. And you can cast it as a Personal Range spell
Short Range Magic can be debilitating in some situations, but a wise Magi needs to then ask his Sodales to make items for him that will allow him to have some tricks up his sleeve.
A maga in a saga I played in got around this Flaw by having hair longer than Rapunzel's, animated by magic. A talisman like Indiana Jones' might also do the trick.
All of those are terrific answers that don't quite fit my character thoughts. I've come back to ArM after many, many years away and my thoughts are still mostly heavy on the new magi setting up a new small and fairly isolated covenant.
The ward is great for protecting me but doesn't help deal with the wolves if there are others who also need protections. Items are terrific but assume that you have had time to set up the travel. Part way into a saga it works but it feels like the idea that is most wrapped up in what type of saga you are playing and where you are in it. The hair idea is great. it doesn't fit with the character I'm working on but is cool.
How does this board feel about creating character's that might never see the light of a real saga? I halfway want to make my random musing on a couple of characters public just to think out loud as it were but I'd hate to waste the time if the general idea is only to do that for ongoing games.
Note that this spell wouldn't actually work - based on the "Targets and Creo" box on page 113 of the core Rulebook, the target of a Creo spell is the thing actually created, and therefore must be Individual or Group.
There is reason why Short-Ranged Magic is considered a Major Flaw. It can really limit what you can do.
There are many ways of dealing with a pack of wolves (or similar) that does not involve targeting the wolves with magic.
Wards have been mentioned. They can personal, or you can cast them (preferably in advance) on your traveling companions, or you can create a circle ward. All these can be done with R:Touch.
You can create a wall of some kind to keep them away.
Teleportation spells of various sorts.
Spells that boost the combat abilities of yourself or your companions.
Create creatures that help you.
There are many options, but the main thing to keep in mind is that with Short-Ranged Magic most of them will involve casting spells on yourself, or on nearby things.
Affecting enemies at a distance will be quite hard however, so mostly don't bother with that.
I think many people here create characters just for fun now and then. Besides, we won't know if you will use the character in a game or not.
If there are others with you that need protections from wolves, use a Ward with Touch range and Group target; you're part of the Group, assuming you all are reasonably proximate to each other.
Thanks again. I appreciate the idea but I posed the question initially as more of a theoretical question about playing with range and that is much more interesting to me than the specifics of the multiple ways that the specific task could be done.
The short of the answer to your theoretical question is that the player has to be inventive enough to find ways around it, and the help of his Sodales is also important. In a game am in, we have a Magus with Painful Magic. He started enchanting items to allow him to overcome some of the limitation.
The interesting question with this is what does playing with range truly mean? The hair example earlier. I assume it's one season of lab activity to make an item that animates the hair. So basically this person is casting touch spells at a decent range. 20 paces, 50 paces, To be honest, I just don't care. A major flaw is no longer having a major effect.
RAW specifies a blind person, there has to be something, such that a healing spell can't heal it. A permanent workaround like the hair example, not to my liking. I appreciate people play the game how they want, however, the moment the short range magic person tells me of the Rapunzel hair, I'd be asking what the plan is, and making sure the player knows if 1 season negates a major flaw, I will make sure a new major flaw comes about.... or give them a curse of baldness, as a penalty for trying to circumvent the rules so shamelessly and blatantly.
As mentioned, commissioned magic items with range, use spells to buff companions, create monsters with ring duration to fight for the magi. There are lots of ways to work around the flaw. The moment you circumvent the range limitation with chicanery, the SG should be seriously thinking if it should be allowed.
I don't understand that, and don't have the time to read the thread. But you do know, that the Range to a Group is determined by the Group member closest to the caster, right?
That makes a lot of sense. I was viewing the hair as 5 paces or so. Still much longer than normal hair and much more reasonable. Probably want to make it related to the talisman such as a comb that both lengthens and animates the hair. The talisman already counts as an extension of touch so it isn't a big deal to use it this way.
Interesting; I did not know that (see below). Given the book's example of a group of grogs huddling together I made the assumption that the group should be both distinct and physically close. You only have to touch one but the others are close enough that perhaps you could have touched them instead with minimally different actions. It seems reasonable to me that you can not cast Group=the bandits and effect all of them even the one in camp you don't know about. Now what about two who have come forward to within a few paces and two who have stayed back at 20 and 40 paces with bows?
I haven't played Ars Magica since 1st edition and haven't read it since 2nd. Between time and different editions there is a lot that I know but also many little gaps of things that feel known but aren't quite right. So discussing the limits of "group" is very interesting to me in the same way that "room" and the targeting of Creo spells was a good answer.
While a touch spell with target group only needs to touch one person in the group, on a personal level, I've always felt if it is a touch range spell, the group should be close together. Not necessarily touching, but no more than a pace or two away. For a voice range spell I'm more tolerant of there being 5 to 10 paces between each member of the group.
I honestly think that interpretation is more of a personal preference, than canon rules, however, the core rule book seems to leave it a little vague.
I played a magus (Darkwing ex Miscellanea) who's reaction to most dangerous situations early on was to turn into a raven and fly above the problem. The covenant grogs learned to place their faith in being lead by a strong companion, or having the Flambeau accompany the party, and Darkwing proved his worth by sneaking around in the form of a bird and gathering information. Play to your strengths.
One useful way to defend people with short-ranged magic is CrAu to just create a bank of fog and then have everyone run for it. Another method is to CrTe a wall in front of you or PeTe a ditch around your group.
Touch range Vilano spells are your friends! 